Semisane

People think retired guys have a lot of time on their hands. Well it can be true of course. But it's not necessairly idle time. Retired guys can be pretty darn busy. It's just that they they are busy doing things they want to do.

When Fall approaches my attention and time is pretty much devoted to scouting deer sign, clearing trails, checking stands, getting the food plots just right, double checking guns and all of the other stuff that goes along with a passion for deer hunting.

Most of the Winter is devoted to hunting our long November through January season. Throw in holiday activities with the family and the half dozen family birthday celebrations that occur during that same period (wife, kids, grandkids) and not much time is left for idle thoughts and dreaming.

Spring is the time for shooting in glorious weather. Lengthy range sessions with a variety of guns are almost mandatory. Add a few fishing trips, vegetable gardening, Spring food plot preparation and before you know it the heat of Summer is upon you.

Summer. Ah, Summer. Lazy time. How can one not waste away more than a few hours dreaming up new projects. Some practical. More than a few not so practical. Most will remain nothing more than pleasant idle thoughts with a "maybe one day" tag. But once in a while a dreamed-up project just seems too neat to not undertake.

I have one of those. It struck me last Summer and just won't go away.

In an old thread I told my tale of shame about my neglected first muzzle loading rifle - a full stock .40 caliber caplock with a 32" 13/16" barrel. (http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...ale-shame.html) I still haven't gotten around to making things right with that gun and it's a key player in the project in question. It needs to be fixed up and the barrel needs replacement.

Here's the project.

Hornady makes three neat looking .430 pre-lubed lead bullets.



Green Mountain makes a .40 caliber 13/16" x 36" barrel. My thought is to get one of those barrels and send it to someone to be bored and rifled specifically for the Hornady .430 lead bullet.

I don't know what the best rate of twist would be, or how deep the rifling should be, or whether the bore should be exactly .430 land to land, or groove to grove. But the idea has been plaguing me for over a year and I'm right on the edge of committing to it.

What do you think?

pluckit

That's a beautiful rifle that must be very dear to you. Just how bad is the rust in the bore of that barrel? Is there any pitting in the bore? I would think that as long as it wasn't left with a fouled bore the rust in the bore shouldn't have have pitted it. A while back I showed pictures of a cannon that's not blued that just sat for years on my dresser and had turned brown with rust. It shines like new silver now. If the bore is not pitted just soak the barrel in Evaporust and blue or brown it and it should be fine. To soak the barrel get a piece of PVC pipe and cap one end. Fill it with Evaporust and soak the barrel in it for 24 hours. Maybe if it is only lightly pitted you could have it bored to a .41 caliber. I am only aware of .41 caliber smooth bore pistols so I don't know if that is even possible, it was just a thought.

nchawkeye

I'd guess 1-28 on the twist as my Knight inline shoots the .429/240gr bullet very well with that twist...

The biggest problem I see is that with that stock design, a 240gr bullet with 70-80grs of powder is going to kick pretty well...Are you planning to deer hunt with it or go with lighter charges for varmints/target shooting???

If the latter, a .395 round ball would serve the purpose just as well and be much cheaper...

Semisane

Don't really know nchawkeye. Probably more target shooting and woods walking/plinking than anything. But I wouldn't hesitate to use that 240 grain lead bullet on deer at reasonable ranges. The thing is, I thought I would like something that shoots slip fit conicals well. None of my other guns do that.

White rifles seem to be the king of slip fits. Maybe some of you White owners can shed some light on their features. How deep is the rifling? How many lands and grooves? How snug in the bore does a conical have to be to shoot well?

flounder33

My White rifles mostly have six lands and grooves but I have one with twelve and one with seven. The gooves are quite shallow, I think about .003 but I'm not positive. I like to see the bullet be lightly engraved when it is loaded. I do not need a short starter because I can get the bullet started easily with my thumb and I can push it down with just a couple fingers on the ramrod. I usually swab between shots but many White shooters do not.
Some people feel that there is a danger of a slip fit conical coming off the charge when hunting. I have not had it happen but I will take my ramrod and check it periodically to make sure that hasn't happened.

Semisane

Flounder, do you have a White in .45 caliber? If so, what is the twist rate and what weight bullets do you shoot in it?

UncleNorby

I would consult the barrel maker and show them the bullets you plan to use. I wonder about those designs, and whether they would obturate correctly. Are there more typically styled muzzleleoading conicals out there in 44 cal? While we're at it, is there a reason to choose 44 cal over 45 cal? I think I'd go with 45, and then you'd have more options with conicals. Seems you like these 44 cal bullets and want a gun to shoot them (not there's anything wrong with that).

Reminds me of the time somone bought me a box of 308 ammo for a birthday present. Nice thought, however I didn't own a 308 at the time. BUT, it was a great excuse to buy one.

flounder33

Yes I have a couple of them in .451. The twist is 1 in 20 inches. I have shot anything from 420 grain up to 488 grain conicals with good results. I haven't tried anything lighter.

cayugad

My White M97. 451 caliber has a 1-20 twist. You need to also keep in mind the depth of the rifling. I have never slugged the barrel so I can not help you there. I am sure one of the White nuts can help you out there. Then I shoot a. 451 slip fit 460 grain with 80 grains of triple seven powder. This is very accurate and hard hitting. White also made a. 40 caliber I believe, but I don't know the specs on that.

That is the route I would take if I were going to have it re-barreled.

lemoyne

If I knew the length of the bullet you wish to use I could tell you what the Greenhill formula recommendation is for it.
For example the .430 240 grain lead Hollow point that my 44 mag shoots as a light load at 900 fps in a Rugar with a 1-20 twist would work in a muzzle loader with a 1-37 to 1-38 twist at 1800 fps.