Dodgerfan1960

I'm new to the forum so I'm sure this has been brought up a 1000 times, but I'm just wondering what you guys think about the smokeless concept? I've seen pics of the Savage's blow up, but quiet honestly I know how stupid people can be, so what's fact and what's fiction, I don't know.

I've never shot one, but it seems like the guys I know that do shoot them are a cult. Other than the obvious cleaning advantages, do they really shoot that much better than a top of the line TC, CVA, or a Knight?

Thanks in advance for the input!

cayugad

The Savage rifles that you saw blown up.. personally I would guess that was 100% operator error. If you load them right, I think they are a very safe rifle. But you need to remember to stay within the rifles guidelines for loads. They are well made, very accurate sabot shooters, and the company no longer makes the rifles. Something to keep in mind.

Are they better then the T/C and Knight rifles... I think that's like comparing Chevrolet to Ford. All in what you like. Yes you don't have to clean the smokeless rifles as much, but you still for all intent and purpose have to clean them.

With some of the new powders for the the non smokeless rifles like the Black Horn 209, I think it boils down to what appeals to you.

bronko22000

I say its up to you. Whatever trips your trigger. Me personally I enjoy good old black powder. But I do use Pyrodex and occasionally Triple 7. I haven't tried the newer Blackhorn 209 yet. The advantage of using this as is it has less fouling. But to me, I don't care. I like to take my time loading and I swab between shots.

Semisane

It agree that it's just a matter of whatever tickles your fancy. Personally I've never had and itch for smokeless muzzleloading and tend to lean in the other direction. I have two in-lines but do most of my shooting with sidehammers and GOEX powder.

Gm54-120

Smokeless does have a learning curve and i don't recommend it to a novice with no reloading experience. There are powders that make very reasonable pressures if you do your research and cost far less than BH209 per shot.

I have 3 SMLs total but i only prefer my NULA for hunting. My Savages are just a bit heavy for my tastes. One has a Pacnor 45cal barrel and its very fun to shoot at the range. 200gr bullets at 2600fps+ is extremely easy to achieve with several powders at less pressure than Savage "book" powders.

As far as accuracy, ive shot just as good of groups with my Knights and even a CVA Accura using BH209. The biggest advantage IMO is that you clean them when you feel like it unless you build or buy a custom SML. I wouldn't trade my NULA for any "production" grade SML or ML.

Muley Hunter

How does the recoil compare?

Gm54-120

Recoil is a bit less if both are at the same fps because you have less total ejecta weight. 84-91gr of BH209 (by weight) vs about 40gr of a commonly used book powder are only about 150fps apart in fps.

In the Savage I use mostly slower burning powders though that require about 60gr for good ignition with a 300gr+ bullet. If you don't use enough, it wont build enough pressure and you will likely get vertical stringing. Faster book powders are not effected by this nearly as much but can get over 35K psi pretty quickly even with a 250gr bullet.

Muley Hunter

I never considered one before, because we can't use them in ML season. I can use them in rifle season though, and I can then use sabots too.

I'm giving it serious though for next year. 1st rifle season for bull elk is pretty easy to get, and I might catch the end of the rut.

Something to think about. They're a little pricey, but not anymore than a decent CF gun.

nchawkeye

I don't care for them...Muzzleloaders and smokeless just don't go along to me... ��

lemoyne

I would not recommend them for anyone who has not reloaded extensively and understands all possibilities involved with smokeless. For instance if you try to load them down as a lot of people do with Black and subs you could get a detonation with is the worst kind of barrel explosion.