I have some T/C's that are a Knight equivelant
09-18-2011, 06:21 PM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rivesville, WV
Posts: 3,192
IMO alot of the above statements take into account the short sightedness of alot of today's shooters(or should I say hunters).
Alot of guys on the internet think that the most important part of a rifle is accuracy off the bench. Or how tight of a little group I can shoot from a benchrest. When in actuality benchrest groups have absolutely nothing to do with shooting in hunting conditions.
Too many guys think that just because they have a firearm that shoots itty bitty groups off the bench that it must be the best choice for a hunting rifle. And actually nothing could be farther from the truth.
There are several factors that are important features to make a rifle a quality hunting rifle.
And yes the barrel is one of those qualities. However it is only one. Just as the accuracy of the rifle is only one factor.
You all have been talking about 200 yard groups lately. When in reality that group has ZERO to do with hunting.
The best rifle is a quality rifle that a person has pride in ownership. And a rifle that allows that person to shoot his or her best in FIELD conditions. This is where a proper stock, and a good trigger, and good balance, and other features come into play.
I think it is short sighted of hunters to concern themselves with itty bitty internet groups. Show me a group at 150 yards under hunting conditions. That is what it is really all about. And that is where they separate the men from the boys in a quality firearm, and most of all the shooter. Tom.
Alot of guys on the internet think that the most important part of a rifle is accuracy off the bench. Or how tight of a little group I can shoot from a benchrest. When in actuality benchrest groups have absolutely nothing to do with shooting in hunting conditions.
Too many guys think that just because they have a firearm that shoots itty bitty groups off the bench that it must be the best choice for a hunting rifle. And actually nothing could be farther from the truth.
There are several factors that are important features to make a rifle a quality hunting rifle.
And yes the barrel is one of those qualities. However it is only one. Just as the accuracy of the rifle is only one factor.
You all have been talking about 200 yard groups lately. When in reality that group has ZERO to do with hunting.
The best rifle is a quality rifle that a person has pride in ownership. And a rifle that allows that person to shoot his or her best in FIELD conditions. This is where a proper stock, and a good trigger, and good balance, and other features come into play.
I think it is short sighted of hunters to concern themselves with itty bitty internet groups. Show me a group at 150 yards under hunting conditions. That is what it is really all about. And that is where they separate the men from the boys in a quality firearm, and most of all the shooter. Tom.
Last edited by HEAD0001; 09-18-2011 at 06:34 PM.
09-18-2011, 06:27 PM
#23
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 550
I agree Tom, most of my shots are under 35 yds... and if i do hunt a crp field, under a 100.... so 200 yd groups mean nothing to me.... and i know that most hunters can not make a 200 yd. shot for the reason not many have had the situation to practice those distances... and to think you can buy a MLer and put a ballistic scope on it and make those shots at will, without practice is just not reality....but, this is really where a trigger will come into play... a 5lb. trigger is going to kill you at that distance.
09-18-2011, 06:43 PM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rivesville, WV
Posts: 3,192
Actually I think a good trigger and proper fit of a rifle is more important at the shorter distances that you are talking about. I have hunted in deep woods all my life. And many times I was offered a 40 or 50 yard shot at a nice buck. But these shots have to be pin point shots. You have to pick out the branches and the leaves, and shoot just to the left of a large tree trunk. Or just under a large branch of an oak tree.
When you bring that rifle to your shoulder the scope picture has to be right there in front of you. And you need 100% confidence to make those shots.
So I actually think that pin point accuracy is more important at a woods shot at 50 yards, over a field shot at 150 yards. Heck at a 150 yard field shot I have a 10"X10" target. I have seen many shots in the woods where I only had an inch or two to spare. And it was the ability of the hunter in concert with his firearm that took home the venison.
So I honestly don't buy into the "I only shoot 25 or 50 yards theory". I think quality of a firearm is more important under stressful woods conditions, than it is under wide open field conditions. Tom.
When you bring that rifle to your shoulder the scope picture has to be right there in front of you. And you need 100% confidence to make those shots.
So I actually think that pin point accuracy is more important at a woods shot at 50 yards, over a field shot at 150 yards. Heck at a 150 yard field shot I have a 10"X10" target. I have seen many shots in the woods where I only had an inch or two to spare. And it was the ability of the hunter in concert with his firearm that took home the venison.
So I honestly don't buy into the "I only shoot 25 or 50 yards theory". I think quality of a firearm is more important under stressful woods conditions, than it is under wide open field conditions. Tom.
09-18-2011, 06:49 PM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
Actually I think a good trigger and proper fit of a rifle is more important at the shorter distances that you are talking about. I have hunted in deep woods all my life. And many times I was offered a 40 or 50 yard shot at a nice buck. But these shots have to be pin point shots. You have to pick out the branches and the leaves, and shoot just to the left of a large tree trunk. Or just under a large branch of an oak tree.
When you bring that rifle to your shoulder the scope picture has to be right there in front of you. And you need 100% confidence to make those shots.
So I actually think that pin point accuracy is more important at a woods shot at 50 yards, over a field shot at 150 yards. Heck at a 150 yard field shot I have a 10"X10" target. I have seen many shots in the woods where I only had an inch or two to spare. And it was the ability of the hunter in concert with his firearm that took home the venison.
So I honestly don't buy into the "I only shoot 25 or 50 yards theory". I think quality of a firearm is more important under stressful woods conditions, than it is under wide open field conditions. Tom.
When you bring that rifle to your shoulder the scope picture has to be right there in front of you. And you need 100% confidence to make those shots.
So I actually think that pin point accuracy is more important at a woods shot at 50 yards, over a field shot at 150 yards. Heck at a 150 yard field shot I have a 10"X10" target. I have seen many shots in the woods where I only had an inch or two to spare. And it was the ability of the hunter in concert with his firearm that took home the venison.
So I honestly don't buy into the "I only shoot 25 or 50 yards theory". I think quality of a firearm is more important under stressful woods conditions, than it is under wide open field conditions. Tom.
09-18-2011, 06:52 PM
#27
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 550
i guess we will have to disagree on this one....my point would be a small pull from a heavy trigger at 50 yards might be 2" but out at 200yds it could be 20"... i guess i am lucky enough to not hunt as thick a woods as you describe... that and i would wait for a better shot or not took it at all.... and i can honestly say i have taken at least 5 deer a year for the last 15, from the same stand set-up
Last edited by EndeavorShooter; 09-18-2011 at 06:56 PM.
09-18-2011, 06:55 PM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rivesville, WV
Posts: 3,192
Features that a good qualtiy woods or field rifle needs:
1. Good Trigger
2. Good fit
3. Good mounts
4. Good optics
5. Accuracy.......................................And the list goes on.
And this makes my main point that the itty bitty bench group is just one of many factors. Shoot that group inthe field and lets look at it then.
I would bet any shooter on this forum would shoot a rifle better if it had a good stock, with a good trigger and a nice scope, and mounts. I am not sure how any one can argue against that?? Tom.
1. Good Trigger
2. Good fit
3. Good mounts
4. Good optics
5. Accuracy.......................................And the list goes on.
And this makes my main point that the itty bitty bench group is just one of many factors. Shoot that group inthe field and lets look at it then.
I would bet any shooter on this forum would shoot a rifle better if it had a good stock, with a good trigger and a nice scope, and mounts. I am not sure how any one can argue against that?? Tom.