sabotloader

There has been some controversy about forum posted loads being shot in a Knight muzzleloader especially regarding the use of BH-209.

Western Powders says that 120 grains of BH is their maximum recommended load and Hodgdon maintains that a 100 grains of loose T7 as their recommended maximum.

It is my belief that a rifle manufacture can and do test, then post the recommended loads for their rifles which may and often does not coincide with the powder manufacturer. The powder manufacturer has to consider ALL ml's and the age of ALL available ml's + other factors - so it is natural that they would provide a lower max number for these consideration.

Rifle manufacturers on the other hand have the luxary of providing the information for given rifle or groups of rifles.
This chart, a collaberation between Knight and Green Mountain, was reproduced from a 2011 Manual (thanks Chet) for Knight Rifles. Since the manual is a 2011 version - BH is encompassed in the statement seen in the highlighted box near the bottom of the page.

Western Powders has maintained that BH is a legal Black Powder Substitute - to qualify for that statement it must meter as a black powder and provide near the same same pressures as real BP, even though BH is a smokeless, progressive burning powder.
Granted that real BP runs a very wide range of pressures from the less expensive powders to the the most explosive of real BP's Swiss Black Powder. Both T7 and BH are engineered to provide the numbers that Swiss does but yet meter the same as Swiss.



Your thoughts...

flounder33

Thanks, Sabotloader! Are these recommended loads for both Knight's bolt rifles and their plunger style inlines?

sabotloader

Yes.. everything but the TK2000 - which is a different world.

There is no difference in quality of barreled action materials or manufacturing methods from the Littlehorn to the Mountaineer.

flounder33

Thank-you.

flounder33

I think you know where I am going with this but in a polite way I am going to take it one step further.
So from this chart we can say that, according to Knight's own safety people, We could safely shoot a 375 grain redhot bullet in front of 150 grains of bh209 in a Knight Bighorn 52 caliber rifle. In fact the minimum charge they would recommend would be 130 grains.

PS. I would not recommend it.

sabotloader

You are correct. Mecahnically shooting this combination from a Bighorn is will not stress the barrel or the action. It may lead to some problems in the breech area depending what you are using as an ignition source. The problem(s) that might exist in the breech area maybe more pronunced with BH because of it progressive burning nature.

So... if anyone one were to do this I would stress - work your way up and wear appropriate safety equipment as suggested by others and assumed by most rifle manufacturers. I would also suggest anytime you are shooting any open breech, not matter which ignition system or how much powder yu are using, do not have any one standing close to the left or right side of the breech area.

flounder33

I agree. And the communication that you and Grouse have with Knight it might not be the worst thing to say some of that in their next manual.
The only point I was trying to make is that even when a manufacturer says something is "safe" we all still need to use our own common sense when shooting. Personal responsibility or something like that.
Another point is starting low and working your way up with powder loads is something that I think is key. I start low and never make it up as high as most of you guys.
Art

mountaineer magic

I Don't think the powder companies recommendations hold much water . They have to be conservative since they have no idea what gun it will be shot from A rifle company on the other hand ought to know their guns and how they are built so if they differ From the powder company suggestions I think it would be wise to follow the gun manufacturers standard. Just my opinion of course. Thanks Sabotloader for posting the load recommendations , especially for those contemplating getting a Knight.

sabotloader

Quote:

Originally Posted by flounder33

I agree. And the communication that you and Grouse have with Knight it might not be the worst thing to say some of that in their next manual.

Is this not the SAFE and Sain way to approach a lot possibilties.... in life - work & shooting

flounder33

It is the Safe and Sane way Pete but also the often forgotten way.
They sure do want to push those 375 grain red hots hard though don't they? Them things would still have a lot of energy down range.