2011 Knight Load Recommendations
#1
2011 Knight Load Recommendations
There has been some controversy about forum posted loads being shot in a Knight muzzleloader especially regarding the use of BH-209.
Western Powders says that 120 grains of BH is their maximum recommended load and Hodgdon maintains that a 100 grains of loose T7 as their recommended maximum.
It is my belief that a rifle manufacture can and do test, then post the recommended loads for their rifles which may and often does not coincide with the powder manufacturer. The powder manufacturer has to consider ALL ml's and the age of ALL available ml's + other factors - so it is natural that they would provide a lower max number for these consideration.
Rifle manufacturers on the other hand have the luxary of providing the information for given rifle or groups of rifles.
This chart, a collaberation between Knight and Green Mountain, was reproduced from a 2011 Manual (thanks Chet) for Knight Rifles. Since the manual is a 2011 version - BH is encompassed in the statement seen in the highlighted box near the bottom of the page.
Western Powders has maintained that BH is a legal Black Powder Substitute - to qualify for that statement it must meter as a black powder and provide near the same same pressures as real BP, even though BH is a smokeless, progressive burning powder.
Granted that real BP runs a very wide range of pressures from the less expensive powders to the the most explosive of real BP's Swiss Black Powder. Both T7 and BH are engineered to provide the numbers that Swiss does but yet meter the same as Swiss.
Your thoughts...
Western Powders says that 120 grains of BH is their maximum recommended load and Hodgdon maintains that a 100 grains of loose T7 as their recommended maximum.
It is my belief that a rifle manufacture can and do test, then post the recommended loads for their rifles which may and often does not coincide with the powder manufacturer. The powder manufacturer has to consider ALL ml's and the age of ALL available ml's + other factors - so it is natural that they would provide a lower max number for these consideration.
Rifle manufacturers on the other hand have the luxary of providing the information for given rifle or groups of rifles.
This chart, a collaberation between Knight and Green Mountain, was reproduced from a 2011 Manual (thanks Chet) for Knight Rifles. Since the manual is a 2011 version - BH is encompassed in the statement seen in the highlighted box near the bottom of the page.
Western Powders has maintained that BH is a legal Black Powder Substitute - to qualify for that statement it must meter as a black powder and provide near the same same pressures as real BP, even though BH is a smokeless, progressive burning powder.
Granted that real BP runs a very wide range of pressures from the less expensive powders to the the most explosive of real BP's Swiss Black Powder. Both T7 and BH are engineered to provide the numbers that Swiss does but yet meter the same as Swiss.
Your thoughts...
#3
There is no difference in quality of barreled action materials or manufacturing methods from the Littlehorn to the Mountaineer.
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,037
I think you know where I am going with this but in a polite way I am going to take it one step further.
So from this chart we can say that, according to Knight's own safety people, We could safely shoot a 375 grain redhot bullet in front of 150 grains of bh209 in a Knight Bighorn 52 caliber rifle. In fact the minimum charge they would recommend would be 130 grains.
PS. I would not recommend it.
So from this chart we can say that, according to Knight's own safety people, We could safely shoot a 375 grain redhot bullet in front of 150 grains of bh209 in a Knight Bighorn 52 caliber rifle. In fact the minimum charge they would recommend would be 130 grains.
PS. I would not recommend it.
Last edited by flounder33; 09-14-2011 at 11:43 AM.
#6
I think you know where I am going with this but in a polite way I am going to take it one step further.
So from this chart we can say that, according to Knight's own safety people, We could safely shoot a 375 grain redhot bullet in front of 150 grains of bh209 in a Knight Bighorn 52 caliber rifle. In fact the minimum charge they would recommend would be 130 grains.
So from this chart we can say that, according to Knight's own safety people, We could safely shoot a 375 grain redhot bullet in front of 150 grains of bh209 in a Knight Bighorn 52 caliber rifle. In fact the minimum charge they would recommend would be 130 grains.
So... if anyone one were to do this I would stress - work your way up and wear appropriate safety equipment as suggested by others and assumed by most rifle manufacturers. I would also suggest anytime you are shooting any open breech, not matter which ignition system or how much powder yu are using, do not have any one standing close to the left or right side of the breech area.
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,037
I agree. And the communication that you and Grouse have with Knight it might not be the worst thing to say some of that in their next manual.
The only point I was trying to make is that even when a manufacturer says something is "safe" we all still need to use our own common sense when shooting. Personal responsibility or something like that.
Another point is starting low and working your way up with powder loads is something that I think is key. I start low and never make it up as high as most of you guys.
Art
The only point I was trying to make is that even when a manufacturer says something is "safe" we all still need to use our own common sense when shooting. Personal responsibility or something like that.
Another point is starting low and working your way up with powder loads is something that I think is key. I start low and never make it up as high as most of you guys.
Art
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
I Don't think the powder companies recommendations hold much water . They have to be conservative since they have no idea what gun it will be shot from A rifle company on the other hand ought to know their guns and how they are built so if they differ From the powder company suggestions I think it would be wise to follow the gun manufacturers standard. Just my opinion of course. Thanks Sabotloader for posting the load recommendations , especially for those contemplating getting a Knight.
#9
The only point I was trying to make is that even when a manufacturer says something is "safe" we all still need to use our own common sense when shooting. Personal responsibility or something like that.
Another point is starting low and working your way up with powder loads is something that I think is key. I start low and never make it up as high as most of you guys.
Art
Is this not the SAFE and Sain way to approach a lot possibilties.... in life - work & shooting
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,037
It is the Safe and Sane way Pete but also the often forgotten way.
They sure do want to push those 375 grain red hots hard though don't they? Them things would still have a lot of energy down range.
They sure do want to push those 375 grain red hots hard though don't they? Them things would still have a lot of energy down range.
Last edited by flounder33; 09-14-2011 at 12:20 PM.