Black Powder Cartridges?
07-13-2011, 06:42 AM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 268
Black Powder Cartridges?
Illinois might be allowing the use of bp cartridges for deer hunting.
I am clueless on where to begin. Does anyone reload and hunt with this old school technology?
I am curious to know what modern guns are out there and how is the performance?
bb
I am clueless on where to begin. Does anyone reload and hunt with this old school technology?
I am curious to know what modern guns are out there and how is the performance?
bb
07-13-2011, 06:52 AM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
I've hunted deer with a Winchester 73 in 44-40. A 200gr bullet with 40 gr of 3F REAL BP.
It's weak compared to modern loads, but it gets the job done. You can also use the the .45 Long Colt.
For more power you can go to 45-70. Not really needed for deer though.
It's weak compared to modern loads, but it gets the job done. You can also use the the .45 Long Colt.
For more power you can go to 45-70. Not really needed for deer though.
07-13-2011, 12:28 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rivesville, WV
Posts: 3,192
You can basically shot black powder cartridge loads in about any modern firearm made(not smart in semi-automatics). You just have to make sure you do a thorough cleaning job.
I am sure there will be more regulations than just allowing any BP cartridge.
A good single shot rifle would make a fine choice. There are alot of single shots made specifically for BP cartridges. Alot of the Sharps rifles(and reproductions) do very well with BP. Tom.
I am sure there will be more regulations than just allowing any BP cartridge.
A good single shot rifle would make a fine choice. There are alot of single shots made specifically for BP cartridges. Alot of the Sharps rifles(and reproductions) do very well with BP. Tom.
07-13-2011, 01:35 PM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
The 30-30 was a black powder cartridge also as was the 45 colt and the 44:40the 45:90 the 45:70 the 45:110 and the 50 in the same powder amounts.
You would need to learn the proper procedure for cleaning both the gun and the cartridge cases the same day the are shot as black powder and the subs are corrosive.
You would need to learn the proper procedure for cleaning both the gun and the cartridge cases the same day the are shot as black powder and the subs are corrosive.
07-13-2011, 01:38 PM
#5
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
The 30-30 was a black powder cartridge also as was the 45 colt and the 44:40the 45:90 the 45:70 the 45:110 and the 50 in the same powder amounts.
You would need to learn the proper procedure for cleaning both the gun and the cartridge cases the same day the are shot as black powder and the subs are corrosive.
You would need to learn the proper procedure for cleaning both the gun and the cartridge cases the same day the are shot as black powder and the subs are corrosive.
07-13-2011, 02:11 PM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,762
Muley is right Lee. The 30-30 started out as smokeless.
Caution though when loading BP. Especially in rifle cartridges like the .45-70. The 70 gr of FFg does not fill the case. You need to add filler. There are a couple videos on Youtube that show you how to do it.
Caution though when loading BP. Especially in rifle cartridges like the .45-70. The 70 gr of FFg does not fill the case. You need to add filler. There are a couple videos on Youtube that show you how to do it.
07-13-2011, 02:34 PM
#7
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
Posts: 10,918
I don't know what the Illinois law is going to say. But if it's turns out like the Louisiana and Mississippi "primitive weapon" law it will cover the type of gun and cartridge, not the propellant. The gun must be a single shot exposed hammer gun designed prior to 1900. The cartridge may contain smokeless powder.
Here's some poop on Louisiana's rules.
Here's some poop on Louisiana's rules.
All of the approved primitive weapons meet the criteria set forth by the Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Commission as authorized primitive firearms. The criteria is a single shot, breech loading, metallic cartridge rifle with metallic cartridges loaded with either black powder or modern smokeless powder, .38 caliber or larger, of a kind or type manufactured prior to 1900 and replicas, and reproductions or reintroductions of that type rifle having an exposed hammer. The pre-1900 distinction applies only to the firearm and not the ammunition. All approved primitive firearms may be fitted with magnified scopes.
Approved single shot breech loading primitive weapons:
Sharps rifles or replicas
Remington Rollingblock rifles or replicas
Ballard rifles
Maynard rifles or carbines
Burnside carbines
Frank Wesson rifles
Farrow rifles
Remington Hepburn rifles
M1873-1888 Springfield (Trapdoor) rifles and carbines and replicas
Snider (British) rifles and replicas
Wesson & Harrington 1871 rifles
New England Firearms or Harrington & Richardson Handi rifles in caliber larger than .38
Winchester M1885 Hi Wall or Lo Wall rifles or replicas (Also Browning B78 or 1885) .38 or larger
Knight KP-1 in caliber .38 or larger
CVA Optima Elite in caliber .38 or larger
Traditions Pursuit break-open single shot in .38 caliber or larger
Non-approved single shot breech loading rifles:
Ruger Number 1 and Number 3 (Reason: No exposed hammer)
Thompson Center Contender or Encore Carbines (Reason: Designed after 1900)
Mossberg SSi Single Shot Rifle (Reason: No exposed hammer and designed after 1900)
Approved single shot breech loading primitive weapons:
Sharps rifles or replicas
Remington Rollingblock rifles or replicas
Ballard rifles
Maynard rifles or carbines
Burnside carbines
Frank Wesson rifles
Farrow rifles
Remington Hepburn rifles
M1873-1888 Springfield (Trapdoor) rifles and carbines and replicas
Snider (British) rifles and replicas
Wesson & Harrington 1871 rifles
New England Firearms or Harrington & Richardson Handi rifles in caliber larger than .38
Winchester M1885 Hi Wall or Lo Wall rifles or replicas (Also Browning B78 or 1885) .38 or larger
Knight KP-1 in caliber .38 or larger
CVA Optima Elite in caliber .38 or larger
Traditions Pursuit break-open single shot in .38 caliber or larger
Non-approved single shot breech loading rifles:
Ruger Number 1 and Number 3 (Reason: No exposed hammer)
Thompson Center Contender or Encore Carbines (Reason: Designed after 1900)
Mossberg SSi Single Shot Rifle (Reason: No exposed hammer and designed after 1900)
07-13-2011, 04:12 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rivesville, WV
Posts: 3,192
Actually all you guys are right about the 30-30.
The 30-30 is not the real name of the cartridge. The real name of the cartridge is 30 WCF(Winchester Center Fire). And that cartridge was based on a smokeless powder load. However the parent case was the 38-55, which is a BP based cartridge. So the real roots of the 30-30(30 WCF) cartridge is BP, but not in the Model 94 Winchester.
WHHEEEWWWW. Now does that make any sense??
The 30-30 designation came from competitors who did not want to name a cartridge after one of its competitors(namely Winchester). So they renamed the cartridge 30-30(so as to match the traditional way of naming cartridges). And since Union Metallic Cartridge was the big mfr. of ammunition at the time-the name 30-30 stuck. And many of you probably know that UMC is now an arm of Remington. Tom.
The 30-30 is not the real name of the cartridge. The real name of the cartridge is 30 WCF(Winchester Center Fire). And that cartridge was based on a smokeless powder load. However the parent case was the 38-55, which is a BP based cartridge. So the real roots of the 30-30(30 WCF) cartridge is BP, but not in the Model 94 Winchester.
WHHEEEWWWW. Now does that make any sense??
The 30-30 designation came from competitors who did not want to name a cartridge after one of its competitors(namely Winchester). So they renamed the cartridge 30-30(so as to match the traditional way of naming cartridges). And since Union Metallic Cartridge was the big mfr. of ammunition at the time-the name 30-30 stuck. And many of you probably know that UMC is now an arm of Remington. Tom.
07-13-2011, 04:30 PM
#9
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
Muley Hunter
According to what I have read 30-30 stands for 30 grains of black powder and 30 caliber. It also was one of the first and most popular when smokelesswas in its first years.
According to what I have read 30-30 stands for 30 grains of black powder and 30 caliber. It also was one of the first and most popular when smokelesswas in its first years.
07-13-2011, 05:48 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rivesville, WV
Posts: 3,192
Lemoyne you have it right all the way up until the point of it being black powder in the original loading.
Nomenclature of that day was pretty simple. The first number of the cartridge was the caliber. The second number of the cartridge was the amount of BP used in the case. And alot of cartridges had a third number. That third number referred to the standard bullet weight. For example the first standard bullet weight for the 30 WCF was 160 grains.
As stated above. Marlin and UMC did not want to use the name Winchester in their rifle and cartridges. So they stayed with current(at the time) nomenclature. Only one problem, they were not using BP in this cartridge. So initially the load was 30 grains of "smokeless" with a 160 grain bullet in 30 caliber. No BP involved what so ever-only in the parent case of 38-50(Ballard) and 38-55.
So they(Marlin and UMC) used the name 30-30, but the second thirty represented smokeless(a stray from the normal classification) powder, not BP. Tom.
Nomenclature of that day was pretty simple. The first number of the cartridge was the caliber. The second number of the cartridge was the amount of BP used in the case. And alot of cartridges had a third number. That third number referred to the standard bullet weight. For example the first standard bullet weight for the 30 WCF was 160 grains.
As stated above. Marlin and UMC did not want to use the name Winchester in their rifle and cartridges. So they stayed with current(at the time) nomenclature. Only one problem, they were not using BP in this cartridge. So initially the load was 30 grains of "smokeless" with a 160 grain bullet in 30 caliber. No BP involved what so ever-only in the parent case of 38-50(Ballard) and 38-55.
So they(Marlin and UMC) used the name 30-30, but the second thirty represented smokeless(a stray from the normal classification) powder, not BP. Tom.