New APP - Super Powder
03-19-2011, 01:32 PM
#61
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rivesville, WV
Posts: 3,192
Am I the only one that sees the craziness in all this?? Or am I just plain nuts?? Every year they come out with another new powder. And I still do not think they have came out with anything that just plain works any better than plain old black powder. Now I have not tried this new stuff. But I think they are just coming out with new stuff every year for the shooter to say "ha I got the new stuff". I really do believe that.
Everytime I try the new-more expensive stuff I find it has this problem or that problem. And everytime I go back to good old BLACK. I think I will just stay with the good old BLACK. I am tired of chasing what may or may not be the highest performing powder or bullet or whatever. Just pour some roundballs, some conicals, and buy some black powder and go out and shoot a deer. Tom.
Everytime I try the new-more expensive stuff I find it has this problem or that problem. And everytime I go back to good old BLACK. I think I will just stay with the good old BLACK. I am tired of chasing what may or may not be the highest performing powder or bullet or whatever. Just pour some roundballs, some conicals, and buy some black powder and go out and shoot a deer. Tom.
03-19-2011, 01:50 PM
#62
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
Am I the only one that sees the craziness in all this?? Or am I just plain nuts?? Every year they come out with another new powder. And I still do not think they have came out with anything that just plain works any better than plain old black powder. Now I have not tried this new stuff. But I think they are just coming out with new stuff every year for the shooter to say "ha I got the new stuff". I really do believe that.
Everytime I try the new-more expensive stuff I find it has this problem or that problem. And everytime I go back to good old BLACK. I think I will just stay with the good old BLACK. I am tired of chasing what may or may not be the highest performing powder or bullet or whatever. Just pour some roundballs, some conicals, and buy some black powder and go out and shoot a deer. Tom.
Everytime I try the new-more expensive stuff I find it has this problem or that problem. And everytime I go back to good old BLACK. I think I will just stay with the good old BLACK. I am tired of chasing what may or may not be the highest performing powder or bullet or whatever. Just pour some roundballs, some conicals, and buy some black powder and go out and shoot a deer. Tom.
03-19-2011, 02:01 PM
#63
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Yucca Valley,Ca
Posts: 2,496
IIRMC Chris Hogdon, turned the formula for BH down several years ago, it was presented to IMR, but I believe his, as well as many others, phlysophical differences with using a smokeless propellent in a ML made him make the decision. That is when General Dynamics of Canada was offered the powder... Right now I can not even remember the original name that it was going to come out with but it was not Black Horn. Heck! IMR already has a very simular powder in production $21 per pound. It wil not meter correctly and is a true smokeless.
At some point if it cuts into Pyro-T7 market enough you would think that he would have to budge, but at the present time it is still a minor share of the market - but growing.
At some point if it cuts into Pyro-T7 market enough you would think that he would have to budge, but at the present time it is still a minor share of the market - but growing.
03-19-2011, 02:55 PM
#64
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
i actually do feel BH is taking more than just a small share.it's the talk on every board and endorsed by many influential people in the M/L inline rifle world.
i still use pyrodex in my wolverine and will continue to do so, especially with it being my conical shooter. and 777 is still a excellent powder also. M/L rifles have advanced a lot in recent years and see BP sub options like BH 209 doing the same. Ray
One other number we should really look at what is the percentage of hunters even using ML's? Hunter numbers are constantly going down as the older generation gets older and the younger generation is not picking it up like they use to. Way to many other things to do....
There was somebody that speculated the ML market was already saturated and that ML sales were decreasing nation wide. It is all a numbers game.
Last edited by sabotloader; 03-20-2011 at 07:39 AM.
03-19-2011, 03:01 PM
#65
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,409
Am I the only one that sees the craziness in all this?? Or am I just plain nuts?? Every year they come out with another new powder. And I still do not think they have came out with anything that just plain works any better than plain old black powder. Now I have not tried this new stuff. But I think they are just coming out with new stuff every year for the shooter to say "ha I got the new stuff". I really do believe that.
Everytime I try the new-more expensive stuff I find it has this problem or that problem. And everytime I go back to good old BLACK. I think I will just stay with the good old BLACK. I am tired of chasing what may or may not be the highest performing powder or bullet or whatever. Just pour some roundballs, some conicals, and buy some black powder and go out and shoot a deer. Tom.
Everytime I try the new-more expensive stuff I find it has this problem or that problem. And everytime I go back to good old BLACK. I think I will just stay with the good old BLACK. I am tired of chasing what may or may not be the highest performing powder or bullet or whatever. Just pour some roundballs, some conicals, and buy some black powder and go out and shoot a deer. Tom.
Maybe us folks who grew up in WV are different from others.
Blackpowder was all there was for muzzleloaders until the late 70s when pyrotechnic deflagrating explosive came out. Yep, BP had some drawbacks but folks dealt with it and got on with their lives. Patched round balls were not the ultimate in projectiles but the old time hunters made it work. Folks were superb hunters and that counted for an awful lot.
03-19-2011, 03:22 PM
#66
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Yucca Valley,Ca
Posts: 2,496
I do not think so... IMR could produce the same thing any time someone would let them, but I think Hogdon and other are sticking to their principles and as long as they control the powder market in the US they pretty much dictate.
See i am not sure of that anymore... the last market shares were posted BH had less than 10%, Real Black Powder still has close to 80% of the market. I can not provide you a source it was from a post on another web site. I think Powder Valley could give you the numbers if you were to ask them, i am sure they track that information.
What you just said is causing Fish and Game & DNR Departments major headaches when it comes to the rules and regualtions for Muzzleloading season that are shortening and disapppearing, because of the advancement of the modern muzzleloader. While it is not a big deal to me as I never hunt with a center fire anymore, other prople really hate the advancement, and they are much more organized in clubs with the ear of the Game Departments and lobbyists on state assemblies.
One other number we should really look at what is the percentage of hunters even using ML's? Hunter numbers are constantly going down as the older generation gets older and the younger generation is not picking it up like they use to. Way to many other things to do....
There was somebody that speculated the ML market was already saturated and that ML sales were decreasing nation wide. It is all a numbers game.
See i am not sure of that anymore... the last market shares were posted BH had less than 10%, Real Black Powder still has close to 80% of the market. I can not provide you a source it was from a post on another web site. I think Powder Valley could give you the numbers if you were to ask them, i am sure they track that information.
What you just said is causing Fish and Game & DNR Departments major headaches when it comes to the rules and regualtions for Muzzleloading season that are shortening and disapppearing, because of the advancement of the modern muzzleloader. While it is not a big deal to me as I never hunt with a center fire anymore, other prople really hate the advancement, and they are much more organized in clubs with the ear of the Game Departments and lobbyists on state assemblies.
One other number we should really look at what is the percentage of hunters even using ML's? Hunter numbers are constantly going down as the older generation gets older and the younger generation is not picking it up like they use to. Way to many other things to do....
There was somebody that speculated the ML market was already saturated and that ML sales were decreasing nation wide. It is all a numbers game.
03-19-2011, 03:56 PM
#67
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
builder459
How so? they have done nothing to produce a competitive powder, which they could do at the drop of a hat... So i am not seeing much worry on their part.
Actually Chris Hogdon is a pretty personable person you ought to send him an email and ask him about his company(s) thought of developing a competitive powder to challenge BH. I would bet he would reply.
Hodgsons actions reveal it's true worries and impact of BH on there market shares..Ray
Actually Chris Hogdon is a pretty personable person you ought to send him an email and ask him about his company(s) thought of developing a competitive powder to challenge BH. I would bet he would reply.
Last edited by sabotloader; 03-19-2011 at 03:59 PM.
03-19-2011, 04:23 PM
#68
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Yucca Valley,Ca
Posts: 2,496
Mike we both reserve the right to agree to disagree lol. but you can bet any company selling whatever product, that loses 10% of there market share in a absolute horrid economy is and should be extremely worried, regardless of what he/she or anyone from that particular company says...especially if and when that economy becomes robust again..and stand assured, he wishes he had bought up the rights to BH, since doing so would mean he would still have his lost 10% of the market..Bh came to market at a horrible time, economy wise and still took a good share of the market.. imagine if it had made it's entry a few years earlier! he's a buisness man and i am not buying what he's saying sorry! Ray
03-19-2011, 04:39 PM
#69
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
DuPont made a "smokeless" BP sub before any of us were shooting. Did you ever wonder where it went or who bought DuPont's rights to those products? 
Alliant bought them eventually in the 1970s.
In the 1940s and 1950s DuPont "Bulk Smokeless" powder for shotguns was commonplace. It was used volume for volume as a substitute for black powder in shotguns. Its use, label, and marketing make it obvious that it was a black powder substitute in the volume for volume sense, which Triple Se7en is not.
Last edited by Gm54-120; 03-19-2011 at 04:54 PM.
03-19-2011, 05:01 PM
#70
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Gm54-120
I had no ideal... i was heavily into centerfires and reloading in the 50's-60's.... Did not know it even existed... I guess smokeless BP sub is not a new thought afterall.
In the 1940s and 1950s DuPont "Bulk Smokeless" powder for shotguns was commonplace. It was used volume for volume as a substitute for black powder in shotguns. Its use, label, and marketing make it obvious that it was a black powder substitute in the volume for volume sense, which Triple Se7en is not.