Pointy bullets
03-15-2011, 12:50 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,607
Up until last Saturday, the only other pointed bullet I had ever shot out of a ML was the FPB. I just have never seen the need for them where I hunt. A LONG shot for me would be 100 yards. So I never have felt the need to look at BC.
For those guys who hunt cornfields and areas out west, I understand the need for them. I think as in most cases with muzzleloading, it depends on your application.
For those guys who hunt cornfields and areas out west, I understand the need for them. I think as in most cases with muzzleloading, it depends on your application.
03-15-2011, 01:48 PM
#12
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
Up until last Saturday, the only other pointed bullet I had ever shot out of a ML was the FPB. I just have never seen the need for them where I hunt. A LONG shot for me would be 100 yards. So I never have felt the need to look at BC.
For those guys who hunt cornfields and areas out west, I understand the need for them. I think as in most cases with muzzleloading, it depends on your application.
For those guys who hunt cornfields and areas out west, I understand the need for them. I think as in most cases with muzzleloading, it depends on your application.
03-15-2011, 02:38 PM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Yucca Valley,Ca
Posts: 2,496
Yep! totally agree Barnes is a one piece bulet as well as the Lehigh that I use.
The Nosler is a copper-lead bulet but is built with a compartment across the shank of the bullet. Both the Barnes and the Nosler are able to control expansion in this manner. The soft lead in the nose allows the Nosler to expand at slower and faster velocities than does the Barnes. This is a recovered Nosler....
I have only shot a few Barnes bullets as they did fail on occasion for me, again from my 300 Win Mag. They would pencil right through a whitetail at close ranges, but that was probably my fault for using a Win Mag on whitetail... Others in the ML world have reported the same thing on occasion with Barnes also. (you can do a search and probably find these incidents) I have no idea which Barnes it was there are so many. Anyway, I do not use Barnes.
If I were hunting elk in Colorado - I am sure the thor would be the bullet I would go to... UNLESS Dave would start building his sabotless Lehigh's - i have some prototypes - they are awesome...
This is the Lehigh 50 sabotless
This is the 45 sabotless along side the regular 45..
They shoot pretty good also... not to mention how devastating they are on game...
That is exactly the same thought process and what I did when I went to the Nosler. It took a monumental effort on my part to move from the Nosler to the Brass Lehigh, but after reading about the possiblities of the bullet, it was developed in Germany, I did decide to give it a try... amazing little devil of a bullet it is.
The Nosler is a copper-lead bulet but is built with a compartment across the shank of the bullet. Both the Barnes and the Nosler are able to control expansion in this manner. The soft lead in the nose allows the Nosler to expand at slower and faster velocities than does the Barnes. This is a recovered Nosler....
I have only shot a few Barnes bullets as they did fail on occasion for me, again from my 300 Win Mag. They would pencil right through a whitetail at close ranges, but that was probably my fault for using a Win Mag on whitetail... Others in the ML world have reported the same thing on occasion with Barnes also. (you can do a search and probably find these incidents) I have no idea which Barnes it was there are so many. Anyway, I do not use Barnes.
If I were hunting elk in Colorado - I am sure the thor would be the bullet I would go to... UNLESS Dave would start building his sabotless Lehigh's - i have some prototypes - they are awesome...
This is the Lehigh 50 sabotless
This is the 45 sabotless along side the regular 45..
They shoot pretty good also... not to mention how devastating they are on game...
That is exactly the same thought process and what I did when I went to the Nosler. It took a monumental effort on my part to move from the Nosler to the Brass Lehigh, but after reading about the possiblities of the bullet, it was developed in Germany, I did decide to give it a try... amazing little devil of a bullet it is.
03-15-2011, 04:34 PM
#14
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Mike i agree with you on Barnes bullets penseling through on a lot of there center fire bullets. i feel this is due to the small hollow points on those rounds.this is "absolutely" not the case with there M/L line of bullets. the Expander MZ,spitfire TMZ or the TEZ. have nice big hollow points like the Lehigh bullets you use and expand at all ranges excellent. the only one i would not use in the M/L line up is the spitfire MZ, due to it's small hollow point. which i have read as sometimes having the penciling through problem.
Here is a picture of whay i used way back then... I still have a couple left...
But when you read through some of the posts on the different ML sights every once and awhile some one mentions a Barnes penciling on a close range shot on the thin skinned whitetail, I have no idea which model that might be...
like the center fire Barnes with there small hollow point. in fact the MZ and the TEZ look almost identical to your Lehighs in the same weight class, exception being the Lehigh is a bit longer due to it lighter weight material.Like you i know quite a few people who have had penciling through problems with Barnes center fire rounds and like you in center fire rifles i always used noslers. but in the M/L arena Barnes bullets are at the top of the heap.the expander MZ is the top dog in premium M/L bullets and terminal performance with the flat based TEZ looking exactly like it except for the poly tip for the additional BC benefit at longer ranges.i think the Lehigh is a great bullet and heads above most, but i have seen nothing that shows me it will kill any better than a Expander MZ or the TEZ Barnes at all FPS ranges..on a side note, i would probably still shoot noslers if they were still making the sizes i prefer weight and diameter wise. Ray
Europeans routinely hunt with rifles of much smaller caliber than we do and with this type of bullet you can do that yet still harvest cleanly and humainly....
Like I said we all develope our favorites and really have a difficult time wth change, anyway I do... but if we do not step out there and try new stuff, we would all still be shooting flintlocks...
03-15-2011, 04:52 PM
#15
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
Posts: 10,918
but if we do not step out there and try new stuff, we would all still be shooting flintlocks...
03-15-2011, 05:36 PM
#18
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
I knew right after I posted that... I had screwed up... I should have said we might still be driving a model A... no watch somebody is going to come back and say they are and that it is a great car... maybe the best old Henry ever made....
03-15-2011, 06:13 PM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Yucca Valley,Ca
Posts: 2,496
Ray, since I am not a Barnes fan, i really can not keep straight what bullets are what bullet in their line. I know I shot 300 grain Expanders ( I think they were expanders) at one time and never had a problem with them at all.
Here is a picture of whay i used way back then... I still have a couple left...
But when you read through some of the posts on the different ML sights every once and awhile some one mentions a Barnes penciling on a close range shot on the thin skinned whitetail, I have no idea which model that might be...
You know when I person gets comfortable and gains confidence in the bullet they are using it is very difficult to change... It surely was for me, but now that I have made the switch to the Lehigh - I never look back. When you see what occurs inside and the fact the bullet changes from a hollow point to a blunt Kieth Nose as it passes through the organs causing additional damage - it is tremendous. And to be sure so does the Barnes and the Nosler, but from what I have observed the shock and trama that an animal feels is probably more than I was getting with the Noslers. My feeling has always been if you can create enough immediate shock to the animal you can often over-ride the flight response of the animal. If you can make it go into immediate shock you have won the battle and often the war.
Europeans routinely hunt with rifles of much smaller caliber than we do and with this type of bullet you can do that yet still harvest cleanly and humainly....
Like I said we all develope our favorites and really have a difficult time wth change, anyway I do... but if we do not step out there and try new stuff, we would all still be shooting flintlocks...
Here is a picture of whay i used way back then... I still have a couple left...
But when you read through some of the posts on the different ML sights every once and awhile some one mentions a Barnes penciling on a close range shot on the thin skinned whitetail, I have no idea which model that might be...
You know when I person gets comfortable and gains confidence in the bullet they are using it is very difficult to change... It surely was for me, but now that I have made the switch to the Lehigh - I never look back. When you see what occurs inside and the fact the bullet changes from a hollow point to a blunt Kieth Nose as it passes through the organs causing additional damage - it is tremendous. And to be sure so does the Barnes and the Nosler, but from what I have observed the shock and trama that an animal feels is probably more than I was getting with the Noslers. My feeling has always been if you can create enough immediate shock to the animal you can often over-ride the flight response of the animal. If you can make it go into immediate shock you have won the battle and often the war.
Europeans routinely hunt with rifles of much smaller caliber than we do and with this type of bullet you can do that yet still harvest cleanly and humainly....
Like I said we all develope our favorites and really have a difficult time wth change, anyway I do... but if we do not step out there and try new stuff, we would all still be shooting flintlocks...
03-15-2011, 06:38 PM
#20
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location:
Posts: 818
I will say that I'm a fan of Barnes bullets. I have and will in the future still shoot them. I have killed a number of deer with the TMZ as well as the Knight Red Hot bullet which is the same bullet. I have had great results and not so great results with this bullet. I have shot some medium size whitetails in the 170 lb range and the bullet did not exit and had no blood trail and did not make a good hole going in at about 50-75 yard range. I will say that I have shot some 200 lb deer and the bullet blew through with great internal ballistics. But overall, the bullet is a good bullet. As some of you know, I went on a hog hunt with the Lehigh 275 grainers and I'm not sure I will leave these bullets. They out performed my greatest expectation from 45 to 160 yards on small to very large hogs. I was not a fan of the big hollow points at all until I went to Texas to try them. Just seeing the devastation they did and the way they opened up sold me on them. I will continue shooting them and cannot wait to see what they will do on a deer at 200+ yards because I have confidence in them.