OldBuckstalker1187

Hey fellas, I think I might be dealing with a real problem here. I purchased a .50 caliber Hawken muzzleloader made by Thompson Center some time ago. It has a 1:48 inch rate of twist. I have solely shot round balls out of it since I got it. I purchased round balls for it at a local gun show at the time. The round balls are made by the Buffalo Bullet Co. They measure .490 and the box says that they are swaged ( not cast ) I am using patches that are lubed that measure .010. I purchased the Hawken ( new in box, unfired ) When I brought it to the range I was a little taken back on how hard it was to push down the (patched ball) I own 4 other muzzleloaders and NONE have ever been that hard to load. I usually use sabots and conicals or maxiball styles in my other muzzleloaders and they have never had this much resistance pushing the projectile down the barrel. I use a starter to press all my bullets down on all my muzzleloaders then use the ramrod to finish pushing until it fully seats. I finally seated the patch and round ball and fired it. It fired beautiful and I went to reaload, the same thing, but this time it was a bit harder to load. I got it seated and fired it, again, beautiful. Feeling further resistance, I decided to clean my barrel just as I do with my other muzzleloaders, ran dry patch and brush and another dry patch then 2 pre soaked patches with ( black off muzzleloader solvent/ cleaner) until they came out clean and then ran 3 dry patches down until they came out clean and dry. I loaded the barrel again and started the ball and patch down the barrel. It was still as hard to push as the first time. I got it seated and fired it off, again it fired beautiful and was accurate at 50 yds. I cleaned the barrel again in the same manner and began to load it again. I started the patch and ball with the started and began pushing it down with the ram rod. This time the bullet felt harder to push than the previous times and got stuck about 3/4 the way down. I ended up breaking my ramrod and pullung the charge with one of my other ramrods. I took it back home, cleaned the gun, purchased another ramrod. The next weekend I brought it to the range, the same thing happened but only after 2 shots!!! This time my attempt at pulling the charge was unsuccesful and I had to bring it to the gunsmith. I told him what had been happening and he measured the barrel for me and I told him the size balls and patches I was using and he said that I shouldn't be having this problem. This is the 3rd ramrod I have broken and I now have a fiberglass rod that bends like crazy everytime I drive the patch and ball down. I am just wondering what the heck could be going on. I have talked to alot of guys that use .018 in there .50 cals with round balls. How can they use larger patches with no problem? I have also heard Thomson Center makes their Hawken model with shallow grooves. Could this be part of the problem?

MountainDevil54

With a .010 patch and .490 round ball, there is no reason it should be loading that tight to where your ramrod starts to bend, especially on a clean barrel.

I'd get it packed up in a box and send it to TC with a note of whats going on and request a new barrel.

sabotloader

OldBuckstalker1187

I really wonder myself what is going on. In all of my TC 50 cal barrels I use a .490 ball and a .015 patch - I certainly could use the 18 but the only time I shoot PRB's are for play and Rondies.

If the gun smith slugged your bore and found it correct - i am wondering if you might have got some .495 dropped in the wrong box.... Did you take any of the balls to the gun smith?

Another question... have you rolled a just a ball down the barrel?

Do you have a mic... have you measured the diameter of the balls?

Just some thoughts off the top of my head....

OldBuckstalker1187

I did not take any of the balls to the gunsmith. I did run the balls down the barrel they roll down with space on each side. one thing I did notice the lead seems to be very dark, almost black. The box of bullets says they are swaged ( not cast ) I spoke with a gentleman who actually used to swage muzzleloader maxi and mini balls but he said he had alot of customers complaining that after time, the bullets went out of round and didn't keep their shape very well. After talking to him, I noticed that the balls were extremely bumpy and not perfectly round. I dont have a micrometer, I am going to be getting one because i will be starting to cast my own conicals very soon.

sabotloader

OldBuckstalker1187

Test one more thing for me... if you have a 50 cleaning jag... put a lightly lubricated patch on it and push it down the barrel. If it goes to easy pull it back out and double it up. Want to make the fit very snug. When you push the snug patch down do you feel it tighten at the spot the ball is getting stuck? and more importantly is it a smooth ride down????

Try that and let us know...

cayugad

Buffalo Bullet Company swagged roundball are very high quality ball. They are all I used to shoot when I could get them. Check the box and make sure they say .490 and not .495 diameter. I have kept roundball around the house for years and never heard of them going out of round.

Next the patch issue. A .010 patch and that ball is nothing. I have seven T/C Muzzleloaders that shoot traditional roundball. I shoot a .018 patch. Are the patches you are using lubed with old lube? Are they pre lubed or are you putting an lube on them?

Addressing the breaking of the ramrod... are you using a short starter to set the ball into the muzzle? Granted I use a short starter. The small end to get it under the muzzle, then the long nose end to get it into the barrel. After that I use the ramrod. Try and push that ball down the barrel in one easy stroke.

What kind of powder are you shooting?

ModernPrimitive

My first new muzzleloader, a T/C renegade .54, had a very similar issue. Since I bought it from a buddy, my first question went to him. He took it for a week or so, gave it back and, though tight, was no longer a rod breaker. I asked what he did, he replied "I shot the h*ll out of it!"
(He may also have given me back .10 vs .15 patches)
I also just solved the opposite issue(waaay to easy to load) by switching from swaged to, I assume, cast balls.
So, unless you feel it's dangerous to do so, it may helpful to shoot another ball/patch combo...often.

OldBuckstalker1187

Ok, I just went and got the .50 cleaning jag out of my kit. I was actually able to find some of the old lubed patches that I was shooting with and ran a couple down the barrel with the jag. They were etremely hard to get down the barrel. Infact, I paid extra close attention while I was pushing the patched jag down the barrel. although it gave a pretty hard resistance the whole way down the barrel, there was 2 spots were the patched jag got stuck for a short second or so and moved past. I noted that it kept getting stuck in what seemed to be the same spots. Every patch came out clean. I ran a 50 cal brush down through it over and over. Probally 50 times or more back and forth. I soaked up a dry patch with (black off cleaner ) and the patch that was soaked with black off (only) slid down the barrel with great ease ( very great ease ) I also noticed that the patch had a little bit of black on it. So I did what you said and doubled the patch, I soaked both with Black off cleaner and ran it down. It was snug but not as snug as the lubed patches were. When I pulled out the double patch, I could not believe my eyes. There was what appeared to be black powder residue that was in the grooves, but it was hard like metal , but brittle. Was it possible that when the hawken was new, it had some special lube or oil inside the barrel that needed to be cleaned out before I shot it the first couple times? I never cleaned any of my other muzzleloaders right out of the box. I am hoping I didn't screw something up really bad. It seems that one of the areas that were getting stuck has broke free completely but the other area is still a but sticky with a doubled up patch, maybe I should keep cleaning it more to see if more of the black hardened material keeps coming out.

MountainDevil54

if you didnt clean the factory grease out of the barrel, that could be a real mess.

Do like sabotloader said, Get some JB Bore compound and give it 150-200 strokes and clean it out, dry and oil. Bore butter isnt a good lube to use to prevent rust. Get a good quality oil like montana xtreme bore oil, birchwood casey barricade or such.

OldBuckstalker1187

I am using a starter that is very short on one side and about 5 or 6 inches long on the other. The lube is Thomson center Natural lube 1000 and it is what the gentleman told me to use that sold me the round balls and patches. I was using triple 7 powder. and hogdon's pyrodex. I was using around 80 - 90 grains each time.