sabotloader

hunt12ga

Just going to add my two cents in here - just to pass some information. I know and i agree that the XTP probably has harvested more deer tham any other bullet, but just to add this to the mix - Speer is making a bullet called the Deep Curl, it is a hunting bullet and it was formerly called a Gold Dot. The thing about this bullet is that it is bonded and has a device insterted in the lead to help control expansion. I kinda have dubbed it a "poor man's Nosler"

I use to shoot a lot of Hornady's and every once in awhile i would find the copper stipped from the lead. The copper would be just under the skin on the enterance side and the lead would continue on but sometimes even then it would even break up.

Trying to show you what i mean you might look at these pictures. The first one is where i shot some Gold Dots/Deep Curl bullets into a saturated soil (clay) water bar trying to destroy or strip the copper. Did not work with the Speers - but i tried...



This second picture i repeated the shots using XTP's...



You can see some of the XTP's turned themselves inside out - not all but some...

Again the XTP's have been highly successful and they certainly have worked but I really believe the Gold Dot/Deep Curl is a more dependable bullet in the worst conditions.

I shoot or did shoot the .452/250 grain for whitetails - complete pass throughs most of the time, and the .452/300 grain for elk - and of course the 300 could be used for whitetail also and it has a BC of .232. It is a shooter - the pointy SST/SW has a BC of .250

Again just my opinion...

Screwbolts

Hi Breechplug and all,

There is no such thing as a made for ML XTP bullet.( XTP: Extreme Terminal Performance) but there are standard XTPs and magnum XTPs, the standard .452 are designed for non Magnum calibers, the 45 Colt, the Magnum is designed for the higher speed "Magnum" calibers, Example: 454 Casull and such. In the .430 diamater the same applies. 44 special verses the 44 mag and the 444 marlin.

I believe that most of the XTPs sold for use in MLs are the Standard variaty 250 gr. and 300s. they have a better history of accuracy than the Mag version of the XTP because of a thinner jacket alllows them to be made easier and more consistently than there mag counter parts. Yes there are also the Mag versions sold in the 30 packs and others.

The XTP has a solid track record and will keep harvesting game. The Speer Bullet is IMHO a better design for a Multi- purpose Pistol bullet for the General masses. It should hold together better in the MLs with there higher than pistol speeds.

As most of you know I now only hunt/shoot boolitz that I cast and really like the wide meplat Hard Cast design that LBT designed for Harvister. I will be using a different cast boolit this season, it is from a BRP products mold. Just a little lighter still nice Meplat and fits the harvester SBH sabot beautifully.

Ken

Breechplug

Ken, check out Hornadys Web Page and also Midway USA. Hornady makes a ML HP XTP Bullet designed for Hunting with todays high preformance MLers. It a 44cal 240gr HP XTP combined with a 50cal Sabot. This Bullet is intended for BP ML Rifle use.
(BP)

bronko22000

I use the 300 gr .429" XTPs with a Harvester green crush rib sabot with excellent accuracy. I havent killed a deer with them yet but I have shot my biggest bug ever (over 200 lb) with a .400" 200 gr XTP pushed by 80 gr of Pyrodex P. That bullet made a complete pass thru and left a devastating wound channel which was caused by good expansion shot at about 65-70 yds.

falcon

I have killed over 20 whitetail deer and dozens of wild hogs using the 240 grain .430 XTP bullet. The vast majority of those kills were bang flops or near bang flops. Never lost a hog or deer that was hit with that bullet. There are a few memorable tracking and dragging jobs because i failed to put the bullet in the right place.

Keep the muzzle velocity in the 1,700 to 1,850 fps range and put the 240 grain .430 XTP bullet in the right place: It will do a good job on whitetail deer and hogs.

Screwbolts

The Following was Copied directly from Hornady's site as you suggestive I look at. My statements came from the Hornady loading manuals, and there site. The XTP regardless of the marketing BS you read in descriptions of saboted bullets is still the XTP. The XTP is listed If you open one of Hornady's Manuals with a suggested speed range for desired results. The BP ML just happens to be very similar to Velocity of the Magnum pistol cartridges that the XTP was designed for. Made for ML's is Marketing BS. Thats all. Try buying just a box of the XTP that is referance as made for ML's you will end up with a box of Pistol Bullets they only make one XTP line of bullets Period! ( this line of bullets includes those for standard cartridges and those for Magnum cartridges) They use Marketin BS to baffle you and take more money from your pocket by fancy descriptions.

Please take special notice that XTP is the registered Trade mark of this description, a Pistol Bullet!!!! You can't have the very same Identical registered trade mark on different products!



XTP®

Features:

• Controlled expansion to 1.5x its original diameter over a wide range of velocities.
• Heavier jacket stands up to the high pressures and velocities of the highest performance handgun cartridges.

flyinlowe

Here is my experience. I shot an Encore 50 cal and I was shooting the XTP 240 Grain HP bullet. The green sabot 44 cal bullet. I have had this gun for three or four season and killed 6 deer with it. Every deer I shot I found less then 100 yards away (most with 30 yards). The problem I have with this round (and the reason I am switching) is I have never fund a blood trial. Now when I say never I am not just throwing that word out there, I have NEVER had a blood trail. Had I not seen where the deer went I would not have found them. I shot a doe two years ago at thirty yards. She ran about 40 yards in the snow and not a drop of blood until she jumped a creek. Yesterday I shot a doe at about 120-130 yards and hit her right in the front shoulder. As the smoke cleared I saw her confused walk in about a ten foot circle dragging her front right leg. She then walked into the woods and was never seen again. We had 5 guys looking for several hours and never found her. This is the first deer that I have ever hit good and could not find. Again we never found one drop of blood, from a deer that could barely walk and was dragging it's front leg. If it was a one time thing I would overlook it but every year I kept saying I was going to switch bullets because of this and now I am going to switch mid season. They always shoot good groups for me but when shooting a muzzle loader you don't always see what direction a deer runs. I am sure other's will have different experiences as this is a popular round but I am not going to risk it any more.

Breechplug

A shoulder shot is Not a Good Shot, you broke her leg, this was not the Bullets Fault. A Deer can run just as far on 3 legs as it can on 4. Even if she was leaving some sort of a Bllod Trail Im sure you still would'nt have recovered her.
(BP)

flyinlowe

I know that hitting the shoulder was not the ideal shot but I have made many ideal shots that did the damage needed, however the blood trail was non existent.

sabotloader

Not all shots we take are perfect shots - it would be nice but there are to many varibles. Just totally guessing here but your should shot probabaly cause the bullets to come apart - strip the copper from the lead and then it was unable to penetrate as far as you would have liked.

Most premium bullets will not have this problem, Bullets like the old Nosler Partitions, Barnes Copper, or the Lehigh Brass bullet.

Another regular priced bullet that does not exhibit this tendancy is the Speer Gold Dot/Deep Curl.