deroche117

This bullet (250 gr) has my head spinning after two different results on three seperate shots. Early in the season, I shot two deer on stand, both at around 45 yrds. The first deer I hit behind the shoulder on a quartering away shot. I followed the minimal blood trail for over 100 yrds then it dried up. Never found the animal. I suspected the angle was too much and the bullet just pissed clean through the animal, following the contour of the body and never hitting any vitals. I'm partly to blame as I should have aimed more for the last rib. The bullet definately passed through the animal as I found the hole in the ground it made after it exited the animal (it was standing on a steep hill).

From the same stand the second shot was broadside this time but a hang-fire caused me to flinch and I'm almost certain, given the way the animal took off, that it was a gut shot. Again the bullet passed cleaned through (another hole in ground). No blood at all on this one. Another lost deer.

At the end of the season I shot a doe at 200+ yards and dropped her on the spot. The season ended on a good note but the earlier lost deer are haunting me.

I love the accuracy of the Shockwave but I'm questioning the terminal performance of this bullet at short ranges. Has anyone had good long distance accuracy with Barnes expanders or Nosler Partisions?

spaniel

Both bullet choices you mention are good bullets though at their limits at 200 yds. But what are you pinning on the Shockwave? There is not a magic bullet that will turn a gut shot into a DRT and, short of a 50 BMG, few that will reliably give you any sort of decent trail off a gut shot. I've trailed deer gut shot with rifled shotgun slugs over a mile for people and never found them, little or no blood. Same with the other, if the angle was bad and you missed the vitals I'm not sure what switching bullets is going to do for you.

kb1

the barnes or noslers probably are better bullets but by how much?the sst/shockwave's have worked well for the 5 deer i've shot with them.i'm not trying to be mean but poor placement is to much to ask of ANY bullet........karl

Grouse45

I would try the 250grn XTP'S in your ML. If they group well they are a good bullet for 200yds and under. The SST'S/Shockwaves have a history of what you are stating.

spaniel

A history of what? Not doing magic with a poor shot?

Most of the "history" you reference is people who never found the deer so they have no idea where they actually hit it so they say it "penciled thru" when in reality many times they probably made a poor hit; lung shot animals don't run off far. One of the few reliable (ie deer found) stories I've heard recently the bullet was recovered and the failure traced to bad loading technique. A jag was being used that damaged the nose behind the plastic tip so that when it impacted the bullet folded inward rather than outward -- not a design problem but a loading jag problem.

The XTP is a good bullet but actually stronger than the 250SW. The 250SW is, if anything, too soft and opens too much at close range. This judged by people who recover deer and post pics of the bullets (or fragments) not lost deer where the analysis is speculatory at best. As with most bullets there are a few valid exceptions searchable on the subject, I think we had one on here in 2008.

Top row in the picture is two recovered 200SWs (out of the 40+ deer I've taken with them) flanking a new bullet. Bottom row is an XTP also recovered from deer.

All three bullets did their job, and none of the deer took a step from where they were shot. Despite the SWs impacting out at 180-200 yds and the XTP at about 60-80 yds if memory serves, it's quite clear which ones (SW) created the larger wound channel:

The SWs were recovered under the far side skin, the XTP I lucked upon lying on the ground after the shot.

Bad angles happen. Hang-fires resulting in poor hits happen. Nobody's perfect. Bullet selection cannot be counted upon to make up for bad placement however. Like I said I've killed 40+ deer with the SW and never lost one...but I've never hit one in the guts either.

deroche117

I don't expect terminal performance to make up for poor shot placement. But given the hits were relatively close to vitals, I guess I had expected SOME form of trail to help me recover these animals. Although the longer of my three shots may have been a lucky break for me, it got me wondering whether these bullets fared better at longer distances than at shorter ranges. I took the long shot because I was confident in the bullets accuracy having practiced with it at these distances. What worries me is what happens to this bullet AFTER it hits the deer. That was my point. Maybe I've been spoiled by my 12 gauge sabots. They seem pretty good at dropping 'em even on marginal hits. *

Grouse45

spaniel
According to the post, the shots were pretty good. I do agree with out recovering the animal it's hard to comment. I really havent had a whole lot of trouble with Shockwaves at all.

The FTX is another story. All my Deer were recovered with good shots and no blood. It took multiple people to find my Deer. I shot a Buck with a 200grn Lehigh behind the shoulder and it went 40 yards. I thought that was a mile to tell you the truth. Everbody has different opinions on good bullet performance. No blood to track is poor to me.

nchawkeye

1) If you don't find the deer you don't really know where it was hit...I hear all the time about my little .243 being too light for deer...I've used it since 1980 and have killed about 200 deer with it, losing one...

2) Were you using the bonded Shockwave or the standard one??? What was your powder charge...

3) Between a couple of buddies and myself we have killed about 25 deer with the standard Shockwave...Our powder charges are 90-100 grs of Goex, Pyrodex and 777...My longest kill was 147 lasered yards...We have had some lung shot deer run further than we hoped but I don't remember any going over 125 yards...Frankly most of mine drop at the shot due to a high shoulder shot...I'm getting too old and cranky to try to recover deer shot in the swamps and cutovers on our farms...

4) Of the 3 bullets you mentioned the Shockwave is the best choice for that 200 yard shot you made...It's interesting that you made a good shot on the longest deer but not on the 2 closer ones...

5) I have killed 5-6 deer with the 300gr Barnes MZ...It and the 250 Barnes are awesome bullets and give great blood trails when deer are hit in the lungs, exit holes are low and guts don't plug the hole...But...I tested the 300 Barnes with 100grs of powder and the 250 Shockwave with 90grs and the Shockwave was 5-6 inches flatter shooting at 150 yards...That 200 yard shot you made with the Shockwave would have been much harder to make with the Barnes...

If your shots are within 100-125 yards a hollow point bullet might make more sense than the Shockwave...All these bullets are trade offs...The good thing is, it's the off season and it's fun to try different bullets/sabots and powders...

Heck the answer might be to invest in a Savage, shoot the .452 300gr Hornady XTP in front of smokeless powder and push it up to 2200fps, then those 200 yards would be a piece of cake...

Breechplug

As mentioned above, nothing beats proper shot placement, a shot in the vitals will always kill a deer. I use 240gr XTP Mags, they do fragment at times when I hit a rib or shoulder and cause more damage than I would like. The fragements sometime hit the paunch on a lung shot when they hit a rib, also the liver ect. But no bullet will do further damage when it goes through the paunch, there's nothing there to fragment the bullet when it hit, just soft tissue.
As far as Shotgun Saboted bullets, IMO they are some of the worst.(certain brands)They blow through the animal with a small hole and cause little damage, that's why I gave up the shotgun as the ML does way more damage. Now in a smooth bore shotgun, the Foster Type Winchester Slugs will do some damage, there not great at long distances but 100yds and under there deadly, especially when they hit bone and fragment.
(BP)

UncleNorby

I have no experience with saboted bullets.

I've shot a few deer now with Hornady FPBs over 100 gr loose Pyrodex. Furthest shot was this year, just shy of 100 yds. Closest shot was just under 40 yds. 5 deer total, all pass-throughs, decent blood trails.

My experience is not a very large sample, but I fully expect the bullet will give a pass-through, whether the shot is close or "far" and they do seem to expand to some degree.

They now come in 300 and 350 grain. Give them a shot.