25 acp conversion ? for omega
09-22-2009, 07:41 PM
#1
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Western New York
Posts: 639
25 acp conversion ? for omega
Is there really that substantial a difference in how much cleaner it is compared to the 209 primers? I shoot pellets and have heard probably not a great idea if shooting pellets whats your guys take with info on this? Third primers for small caliber guns are getting hard to find up here in New York So is it worth the cost in your guys opinion to switch over?? Thanks Guys
09-22-2009, 09:20 PM
#2
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hyde Park, Utah
Posts: 252
I understand the .25 acp will not light pellets . I have a .25 acp conversion BP i made for my encore and love it . Almost no carbon build up in the breech plug and you form fit your brass to fit you PB and your gun by closing you action on the brass , you get 100% SEAL AND NO BLOW BY AT ALL . I really like mine . The small rifle and pistol primer are starting to hit the shelves in my area , I bought 1000 of the Remington small rifle primers and 100 .25 acp brass . I made my own by drilling out a old BP with size L drill bit , in a drill press and it worked great . I held the BP in place with a box end wrench and drilled it to the proper depth . That simple , no lathe needed . The first one i drilled a was a hair to deep so i re-set the drill stop and bingo the next BP was perfect . Using a caliper and measuring as you go would be the best way !!
Last edited by UtahRob; 09-23-2009 at 01:22 PM.
09-22-2009, 09:46 PM
#3
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hyde Park, Utah
Posts: 252
09-23-2009, 08:24 AM
#5
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
matt068
I totally agree with Andy and Rob + we all make our own from a standard Omega BP. I have even gon a little further and have drilled out a plug and installed a vent liner to help reduce blow back in the shell and top increase the flash delievered to the powder.
I also think the conversion would light your pellets... if not with the standard smal rifle primer a small rifle mag primer would for sure....
I totally agree with Andy and Rob + we all make our own from a standard Omega BP. I have even gon a little further and have drilled out a plug and installed a vent liner to help reduce blow back in the shell and top increase the flash delievered to the powder.
I also think the conversion would light your pellets... if not with the standard smal rifle primer a small rifle mag primer would for sure....
09-23-2009, 10:46 AM
#6
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
Sabotloader
You do have some traffic ideas. I bored the hole on the plug I converted to use a vent liner all the way like you said, Now I don't know if its the vent liner or the larger hole or both in combination but it makes a big difference. I have been using it along side the Endeavor which still has a stock BP to see how much difference it makes in accumulated carbon and its a BIG difference. When I have shot enough to get the Endeavor 's plug half full of carbon the Triumph with the same number of shot has only a little. It also made a difference the accuracy; the loads that were accurate before still are but I can go up or down 10 gr and still get a group of under an inch it shoots a bit higher or lower with more or less powder but it appears to be a most excellent combination with BH 209.
You do have some traffic ideas. I bored the hole on the plug I converted to use a vent liner all the way like you said, Now I don't know if its the vent liner or the larger hole or both in combination but it makes a big difference. I have been using it along side the Endeavor which still has a stock BP to see how much difference it makes in accumulated carbon and its a BIG difference. When I have shot enough to get the Endeavor 's plug half full of carbon the Triumph with the same number of shot has only a little. It also made a difference the accuracy; the loads that were accurate before still are but I can go up or down 10 gr and still get a group of under an inch it shoots a bit higher or lower with more or less powder but it appears to be a most excellent combination with BH 209.
09-24-2009, 06:34 AM
#8
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hyde Park, Utah
Posts: 252
matt068
I totally agree with Andy and Rob + we all make our own from a standard Omega BP. I have even gon a little further and have drilled out a plug and installed a vent liner to help reduce blow back in the shell and top increase the flash delievered to the powder.
I also think the conversion would light your pellets... if not with the standard smal rifle primer a small rifle mag primer would for sure....
I totally agree with Andy and Rob + we all make our own from a standard Omega BP. I have even gon a little further and have drilled out a plug and installed a vent liner to help reduce blow back in the shell and top increase the flash delievered to the powder.
I also think the conversion would light your pellets... if not with the standard smal rifle primer a small rifle mag primer would for sure....
But what does vent liner do ? is the hole down the middle bigger, so you can put smaller or larger ones in ? Does the shape of the vent liner stop blow back from the powder ? Also on my Tc breech plugs the dome is very round or cupped , but yours looks flat . did you have to turn the bp on a lathe and flatten the inside where the vent liner goes ? Also after you shoot your BP with the vent liner does the flame remove/ burn away the allen screw , can it still be removed ? sorry about all the ??? Still a little confused as to what a vent liner does or improves .
RobK.
Last edited by UtahRob; 09-24-2009 at 06:44 AM.
09-24-2009, 07:31 AM
#9
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Rob
In your current breech plug - when the flash hole becomes elongated, gas cut, or just plain worn out - one way to fix is to drill the plug out and install a vent liner with a new flash hole. Then you can replace the vent liner from then on and not have to replace the breech plug. With the wide use of BH and the hot shot primers that it takes to ignite it - you will see faster deterioration of the flash hole.
The Lehigh, vent liners are fairly inexpensive as compared to a new breech plug - especially when you start looking at the price of a 'speed breech'
This vent liner thing is another one of my 'Theories' or wild a--ed thoughts.... this come from the blue now and then.
No, I increased the hole size to increase the capacity of the BP to contain blow-bac. I must admit this was not totally my thought... It really originated with Grouse saying his new Knight Vision with a new Knight BP reduced 'blow-bac' dramitically - I wanted to knw why so he sent me the rifle. Then 'spitpatch' and I started talking about it, then I started thinking about the Triumph 'speed breech' and wondered why it was so clean? It all came down the 'spits' theory the size of the internal cavity would allow the more 'blow bac expasnion to be contained in the BP if the volume of the chamber were larger. The more volumn it contains the more time it allows the bullet to get out the barrel. When the bullet leaves the bore 'blow bac' is a non-issue -in fact it will even suck some 'blow-bac' with it.
And yes I think you could install different vent liners with different sized flash holes by a few thousands... Precision Bullets makes one, Savage makes one and even Randy Wakeman makes one, and even a guy on MM makes ones... the flash holes in each might be a different size.
I personally think the shape is a factor.... I believe the cone shape will deflect some of the 'blow-bac' pressure away from the flash hole and reduce the pressure going back through the flash hole.
Here are the differnet type of Omega breech plaus that I know of (picture from MLKieth)
The plug that I use is the second on the left. But you can see how they all guide the pressure in the bore right back to the center flash hole.
No I did not have to use the lathe... I used it this time because I wanted everything to be precise and exact fit. I have to more Knight FPJ plugs that have gon through the lathe also to be able to install the vent liners - we also increased the volume of the BP at the same time also in those and the Lehigh liners sceww in to them. I hope to test them this weekend with a new DISC Elite that I just got in the mail.
In the future I will do the same project on my bench drill press and machine vice. It really is prety simple + plus Lehigh Dave has indicated at one time that he might also provide the service when buying his vent liners... he would need to charge for that service... I have not confirmed this with him....
The biggest fear.... sticking the vent liner in the BP especially when shooting T7. I will install it with a wee bit of anti-seze on the threads and a piece of teflon tape under the bell, But in realality it, really does not concern me with T7 - if you stick-it throw it in boiling water and expand the metal + T7 is water soluable... Yes, eventually the vent liner will wear out not necessarily the allen wrench insert - but the flash hole. But relacing them at $5 is really fairly cheap.
Don't be I love questions... the forum runs on questions...
Purpose of the vent liner... well basically I am cheap! actually I am cheaper than 'Grouse' and he is always looking for good deals... I will not even shoot a steady diet of BH - cause I am cheap!
And I do think the vent liner provides benenfits... BUT as Grouse has pointed out to me there may be a DANGER that hear has some fear of... if for some reason that you remove your BP then remove the vent liner to clean it then reinstall the BP with out reinstalling the vent line (you forgot got busy whatever reason) then loaded and attempted a shot - it certainly could be a bad issue - SAFETY FIRST
Sorry this got so long winded - I am not a writer - never have never will be....
mike
But what does vent liner do ?
The Lehigh, vent liners are fairly inexpensive as compared to a new breech plug - especially when you start looking at the price of a 'speed breech'
This vent liner thing is another one of my 'Theories' or wild a--ed thoughts.... this come from the blue now and then.
is the hole down the middle bigger, so you can put smaller or larger ones in ?
And yes I think you could install different vent liners with different sized flash holes by a few thousands... Precision Bullets makes one, Savage makes one and even Randy Wakeman makes one, and even a guy on MM makes ones... the flash holes in each might be a different size.
Does the shape of the vent liner stop blow back from the powder ? Also on my Tc breech plugs the dome is very round or cupped , but yours looks flat .
Here are the differnet type of Omega breech plaus that I know of (picture from MLKieth)
The plug that I use is the second on the left. But you can see how they all guide the pressure in the bore right back to the center flash hole.
did you have to turn the bp on a lathe and flatten the inside where the vent liner goes ?
In the future I will do the same project on my bench drill press and machine vice. It really is prety simple + plus Lehigh Dave has indicated at one time that he might also provide the service when buying his vent liners... he would need to charge for that service... I have not confirmed this with him....
Also after you shoot your BP with the vent liner does the flame remove/ burn away the allen screw , can it still be removed ?
sorry about all the ??? Still a little confused as to what a vent liner does or improves .
Purpose of the vent liner... well basically I am cheap! actually I am cheaper than 'Grouse' and he is always looking for good deals... I will not even shoot a steady diet of BH - cause I am cheap!
And I do think the vent liner provides benenfits... BUT as Grouse has pointed out to me there may be a DANGER that hear has some fear of... if for some reason that you remove your BP then remove the vent liner to clean it then reinstall the BP with out reinstalling the vent line (you forgot got busy whatever reason) then loaded and attempted a shot - it certainly could be a bad issue - SAFETY FIRST
Sorry this got so long winded - I am not a writer - never have never will be....
mike
Last edited by sabotloader; 09-24-2009 at 10:53 AM.
09-25-2009, 07:13 PM
#10
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hyde Park, Utah
Posts: 252
Rob
In your current breech plug - when the flash hole becomes elongated, gas cut, or just plain worn out - one way to fix is to drill the plug out and install a vent liner with a new flash hole. Then you can replace the vent liner from then on and not have to replace the breech plug. With the wide use of BH and the hot shot primers that it takes to ignite it - you will see faster deterioration of the flash hole.
The Lehigh, vent liners are fairly inexpensive as compared to a new breech plug - especially when you start looking at the price of a 'speed breech'
This vent liner thing is another one of my 'Theories' or wild a--ed thoughts.... this come from the blue now and then.
No, I increased the hole size to increase the capacity of the BP to contain blow-bac. I must admit this was not totally my thought... It really originated with Grouse saying his new Knight Vision with a new Knight BP reduced 'blow-bac' dramitically - I wanted to knw why so he sent me the rifle. Then 'spitpatch' and I started talking about it, then I started thinking about the Triumph 'speed breech' and wondered why it was so clean? It all came down the 'spits' theory the size of the internal cavity would allow the more 'blow bac expasnion to be contained in the BP if the volume of the chamber were larger. The more volumn it contains the more time it allows the bullet to get out the barrel. When the bullet leaves the bore 'blow bac' is a non-issue -in fact it will even suck some 'blow-bac' with it.
And yes I think you could install different vent liners with different sized flash holes by a few thousands... Precision Bullets makes one, Savage makes one and even Randy Wakeman makes one, and even a guy on MM makes ones... the flash holes in each might be a different size.
I personally think the shape is a factor.... I believe the cone shape will deflect some of the 'blow-bac' pressure away from the flash hole and reduce the pressure going back through the flash hole.
Here are the differnet type of Omega breech plaus that I know of (picture from MLKieth)
The plug that I use is the second on the left. But you can see how they all guide the pressure in the bore right back to the center flash hole.
No I did not have to use the lathe... I used it this time because I wanted everything to be precise and exact fit. I have to more Knight FPJ plugs that have gon through the lathe also to be able to install the vent liners - we also increased the volume of the BP at the same time also in those and the Lehigh liners sceww in to them. I hope to test them this weekend with a new DISC Elite that I just got in the mail.
In the future I will do the same project on my bench drill press and machine vice. It really is prety simple + plus Lehigh Dave has indicated at one time that he might also provide the service when buying his vent liners... he would need to charge for that service... I have not confirmed this with him....
The biggest fear.... sticking the vent liner in the BP especially when shooting T7. I will install it with a wee bit of anti-seze on the threads and a piece of teflon tape under the bell, But in realality it, really does not concern me with T7 - if you stick-it throw it in boiling water and expand the metal + T7 is water soluable... Yes, eventually the vent liner will wear out not necessarily the allen wrench insert - but the flash hole. But relacing them at $5 is really fairly cheap.
Don't be I love questions... the forum runs on questions...
Purpose of the vent liner... well basically I am cheap! actually I am cheaper than 'Grouse' and he is always looking for good deals... I will not even shoot a steady diet of BH - cause I am cheap!
And I do think the vent liner provides benenfits... BUT as Grouse has pointed out to me there may be a DANGER that hear has some fear of... if for some reason that you remove your BP then remove the vent liner to clean it then reinstall the BP with out reinstalling the vent line (you forgot got busy whatever reason) then loaded and attempted a shot - it certainly could be a bad issue - SAFETY FIRST
Sorry this got so long winded - I am not a writer - never have never will be....
mike
In your current breech plug - when the flash hole becomes elongated, gas cut, or just plain worn out - one way to fix is to drill the plug out and install a vent liner with a new flash hole. Then you can replace the vent liner from then on and not have to replace the breech plug. With the wide use of BH and the hot shot primers that it takes to ignite it - you will see faster deterioration of the flash hole.
The Lehigh, vent liners are fairly inexpensive as compared to a new breech plug - especially when you start looking at the price of a 'speed breech'
This vent liner thing is another one of my 'Theories' or wild a--ed thoughts.... this come from the blue now and then.
No, I increased the hole size to increase the capacity of the BP to contain blow-bac. I must admit this was not totally my thought... It really originated with Grouse saying his new Knight Vision with a new Knight BP reduced 'blow-bac' dramitically - I wanted to knw why so he sent me the rifle. Then 'spitpatch' and I started talking about it, then I started thinking about the Triumph 'speed breech' and wondered why it was so clean? It all came down the 'spits' theory the size of the internal cavity would allow the more 'blow bac expasnion to be contained in the BP if the volume of the chamber were larger. The more volumn it contains the more time it allows the bullet to get out the barrel. When the bullet leaves the bore 'blow bac' is a non-issue -in fact it will even suck some 'blow-bac' with it.
And yes I think you could install different vent liners with different sized flash holes by a few thousands... Precision Bullets makes one, Savage makes one and even Randy Wakeman makes one, and even a guy on MM makes ones... the flash holes in each might be a different size.
I personally think the shape is a factor.... I believe the cone shape will deflect some of the 'blow-bac' pressure away from the flash hole and reduce the pressure going back through the flash hole.
Here are the differnet type of Omega breech plaus that I know of (picture from MLKieth)
The plug that I use is the second on the left. But you can see how they all guide the pressure in the bore right back to the center flash hole.
No I did not have to use the lathe... I used it this time because I wanted everything to be precise and exact fit. I have to more Knight FPJ plugs that have gon through the lathe also to be able to install the vent liners - we also increased the volume of the BP at the same time also in those and the Lehigh liners sceww in to them. I hope to test them this weekend with a new DISC Elite that I just got in the mail.
In the future I will do the same project on my bench drill press and machine vice. It really is prety simple + plus Lehigh Dave has indicated at one time that he might also provide the service when buying his vent liners... he would need to charge for that service... I have not confirmed this with him....
The biggest fear.... sticking the vent liner in the BP especially when shooting T7. I will install it with a wee bit of anti-seze on the threads and a piece of teflon tape under the bell, But in realality it, really does not concern me with T7 - if you stick-it throw it in boiling water and expand the metal + T7 is water soluable... Yes, eventually the vent liner will wear out not necessarily the allen wrench insert - but the flash hole. But relacing them at $5 is really fairly cheap.
Don't be I love questions... the forum runs on questions...
Purpose of the vent liner... well basically I am cheap! actually I am cheaper than 'Grouse' and he is always looking for good deals... I will not even shoot a steady diet of BH - cause I am cheap!
And I do think the vent liner provides benenfits... BUT as Grouse has pointed out to me there may be a DANGER that hear has some fear of... if for some reason that you remove your BP then remove the vent liner to clean it then reinstall the BP with out reinstalling the vent line (you forgot got busy whatever reason) then loaded and attempted a shot - it certainly could be a bad issue - SAFETY FIRST
Sorry this got so long winded - I am not a writer - never have never will be....
mike
Thanks !!!!!!
