sabotloader

Semi

I have shot a fair share of BH for testing purposes and i like you so no need of it for myself. It is 'the real deal' as advertised but it certainly is not night day difference between itself and T7. The use of high intesity primers is also very tough on your breechplugs, both in their fouling properties and the intense they create, gas cutting the flash hole. Although, I think we might have that problem somewhat solved.

Here I can still go to the local store and buy T7 for $18.99, but after talking to Tom maybe you guys can not get it for that price. In the local stores here in the northwest you can not even find BH, probably because you can not shoot it during ML season in the northwest.

Semisane

Yeah, I'm a little slow Doug. But Blackhorn doesn't "catch on" at all in my sidelocks and doesn't shoot any better than T7 or Pyrodex in my in-lines. Swabbing??? Sure, but it's no big deal for me.

flounder33

I'm afraid I must be a little on the slow side too. For some reason, swabbing between shots doesn't bother me so much. I have to wait for the rifle to cool down anyway so I might as well be doing something.
Clean up afterwards takes a little time but I put some music on and think about my shooting. It's actually kind of an enjoyable routine for us slow people.
Art

sabotloader

flounder33

Amen!

MountainDevil54

im actually using teflon tape on my Accuras plug. I dont see any difference between it and the grease. Neither allow any blowby. Both come out easy. The grease i use washes off with water. Im also using pyrodex RS.

BH209 is to hard to find around here. Goex is a hell of a lot easier to find LOL. but still a 2 hour drive, so i stick with pyrodex.

lemoyne

You all left out one difference, I know that the swabbing and the crud ring don't bother some people [the crud ring was a problem to me] and I know it will shoot reasonably accurate I used it for two years, and Sabot loader is right about the price it does change according to where you are around here they carry both in the local sporting good stores the 777 is around 27 and the BH is around 37 but I buy through a different system and get the BH cheaper than I can the 777 so circumstances change and vary for each of us but there is one point that a lot of people are missing.
With 777 yo can only burn about 120 gr effectively a bit of testing will show that with the same 120 grains that the pressure is around 15% lower and because it is progressive burning you can burn more and that after 110gr the difference in velocity will change as the BH keeps right on gaining. Just what I think from my own experience and testing. Lee

sabotloader

lemoyne

You are absolutely correct with the heavier bullets but even then you get a max of 200 fps of greater velocity within the given recommended loading rates.

With the lighter bullets the difference goes south in hurry.

It is good but it not that good -

Correct again for you, but how many normal folks can afford to buy a case and then store it. And how many normal ML shooters shoot as much as you and I. The majority of shooters might not even shoot their 10 ounces or lb in my case in a year.

flounder33

I am sure you are right Lee and for long-range shooting I think the BH 209 has some definite advantages. My shots are mostly going to be 100 yards or less, mostly much less.
I am not getting down on those who shoot BH 209 at all. I just don't think I should be made to feel stupid if I choose another powder.
That's what I like about muzzleloading, we can all find a way to shoot that suits us. Like my best pal tells me "Do it your own damn wrong way then".
Art
.

lemoyne

Well for one thing I don't believe in putting anything that works down, and that an honest comparison does not do that. I still use Pyrodex in half my guns and black in a couple some times the type of gun and the circumstances influences the situation.
I just like to see all the +'s and -'s shown when something is talked about.
Mike you may be right when you say we shoot more than most, I doubt if there is more than 10% that burn a case and a half a year like I do but I bet there are more than you think, although I suspect that you and Dave and maybe Tom would be in that category with me.
Also there is the velocity thing, I really like having the capability of pushing a 200gr over 2400 and a 250 gr over 2300 a lot of the error in distance shooting comes from Trajectory so the flatter you can shoot the less error and it also reduces wind drift. Its not for everybody or every gun but I am glad it has worked for me.

sabotloader

Lee

All your information is correct anyway from my point of view it is.

But you also have to remember not all will see what you see. I have shot 130 grains of BH (actually 140 grains in a Knight with a 200 grain Lehigh to which velocity was less than 130) and at my elevation - I do not reach the velocity that you and Tom do.

Toby Bridges has conducted many such shooting experiments at his elevation and Montana and does not see what you and Tom see.

BH is a great powder!!! but you might as well buy a Savage and reap the full benefits of shooting smokeless at a far less cost. The additional expense of burning out a breech plug because of the primer necessary (gas cutting) and the greater heat created by BH in the bore (as with any smokeless) should also be computed into the formula. Although we may have found an answer for the breech plug issue. But even then not everyone is going to trust a couple of back yard mechanics... might even present some implications to warranties.

You and a lot of other folks see a lot of benefits, as I do but i do not see the night and day difference that might justify the cost of the powder versus others and i really think that there are draw backs also as there are with any other powders, and for me the draw backs do not weigh out.


I think Flounder may have touched it best - to those that choose to shoot BH - GREAT! and to us that shoot something else we should not be considered in the dark ages