driftrider

The 300 grain Barnes Expander MZ bullets are really long because they are all copper (which is much less dense than lead), and because of the huge, very deep, hollow point. If you have a 1:28" twist and the bullets show signs they aren't being stabilized, you could try a heavier powder charge to drive the bullet faster. You would probably also get great results with the 250 grain version. I use the 300 grain E-MZ in my Savage, which has a very fast (for a muzzleloader) 1:24" twist, so it stabilizes the big Barnes great and gives very good accuracy. I've not tried the 250 gr version in the Savage, but I do know that I never get as good of accuracy any time I've shot bullets less than 300 grain in the gun. I think that it's because the twist is way to fast at 2200 fps.

Mike

lemoyne

There is no doubt that the Barnes is a good bullet, I am in doubt that it is the best. The nosler 300gr partition and the 300gr Lehigh would be on my list for trial and then there is the 300gr Gold Dot and the 300gr Bonded shock Wave. I believe that I would do some testing on the load that I could get them to shoot with and just how much penetration I could get as well as accuracy with a heavy load. My personal belief is that the bigger the animal the bigger the load should be and when you get to the size of an elk and bigger that penetration is very important some people even us hard cast bullets. Lee

driftrider

I'm not sure how you'd expect LESS penetration from a Barnes bullet. My experience is that they ALWAYS go through a deer when shot broadside, even if they break both shoulders or smash the spine going through. They expand a lot, and pretty fast, but they also shed little if any weight. The few people who do recover them always have near 100% weight retention, and the only time I've ever heard of a Barnes E-MZ being recovered is on long ways shots, and then the bullet usually goes all the way through to just under the hide after going lengthwise through the deer. If I were hunting moose, the Barnes would be my 1st choice BECAUSE of the penetration. I'd be extremely confident that the 300 gr E-MZ would make it to vitals no matter what part of the animal it had to go through first.

Mike

sabotloader

Lee

You know I share an equal tought in the ability of the Gold Dot especially considering the price of the Dot as compared to the Nosler, Barnes, or even the SST/SW...

The only thing I have not proved to my self is my concern that the Gold Does expand greater than the Nosler... which may/might also reduce the depth of penetration in a large animal. Granted the damage will be done and the animal is dead - I am just not sure if it will happen as fast. Again my only concern is or would be in thick skinned and thick bodied animal.

lemoyne

sabotloader
I agree, I have been trying to figure out a practical way to do some testing. After thinking it over I realize it might take some extensive testing. The velocity on impact has a lot to do with expansion to slow and the won't open fast enough and to fast they can open to fast. Now with different loads of BH the top end has changed it is quite possible some of the old stand by bullets could be pushed so fast that they would loose penetration; the question we need answered first is at what velocity that starts to happen with each different bullet. I have heard several people say that you can push the Barnes to fast but they were using smokeless to do it. I can get between 24 and 25 hundred with 200 gr bullets, there is not to many bullets that length to spin balance out at that speed, I can get inch groups with the 200gr Lehigh but since they came out with the 185 I am afraid they might quit making them. That bullet has a design difference that shouldkeep itpenetrating well to, I wish I knew a bit more about what velocity they have been used at and what the results were. They have a quite different POI at the velocity I would like to try them on some hogs at so I would have to sight in just for them for a hog hunting trip and that limits my options. Lee

spaniel

You're describing exactly why I would be afraid of lack of penetration...they expand wide and fast and retail all the petals/weight. The wide frontal area retards penetration, it's straightforward physics. I would be careful about extrapolating experience on whitetails to a moose, a moose is MUCH bigger obviously and therefore if a bullet has a weakness in the penetration area you're more likely to see it.

I've never shot Barnes out of a ML but my initial experience with with the shotgun version. Truth be told we recovered 4 of 9 slugs we shot into whitetails, all within 100 yards, the first year my hunting partner and I tried them. I had one either explode or open and deflect on the outside surface of the shoulder blade of a yearling and fail to penetrate the bone on a broadside shot, that was one of the ugliest tracking jobs and experiences I've ever had as a hunter. This is why personally, for bigger game, I'd go with a bullet giving good expansion but to a more reasonable extent like the Nosler.

Expansion is good, but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. This is why they use solids on large African game, because the more expansion you get the less penetration you get and you kinda need to maximize penetration on things that can eat or gore you.

sabotloader

spaniel

Exactly my thoughts about the expansion of the deep HP on the Barnes...

Reason for suggesting the Nosler is the expansion is limited to about 7/8" or there abouts and penetration continues, along with the cutting of the petals and the hydrostatic shock created by the large meplate of the bullet...

Example - this a .458/300 grain Nosler Partition PP - it shows the total expansion available, even though it lost a little 'lead weight' from the nose. The soft lead in the nose acts to start the expansion - something like the tip in a SST/SW.

lemoyne

I have gotten the FTX to shoot a 1.20 inch group at 2350 FPS which is good enough for hunting but the bullet is designed for 2500 FPS; I am not sure how much leeway is allowed for the bullet slowing down. Does any one know how much Hornady allows for slowing below design velocity for the bullet to open properly?

SWThomas

That must just be with the shotgun slugs because I have experienced nothing but devastating performance from Barnes' ML bullets. And so has everyone else I have seen post about them. Maybe the shotshells don't possess enough powder to drive them fast enough or maybe it's a different design. But the ML versions of their bullets are top-shelf for sure.

fred2012

well guys today I filled a 1 gallon jug of water and placed it in front of a box made out of wood. the face was 3/4 " plywood and the sides were 2x4s and the back was a 2 x 12 and i put a wet 4" thick telephone book in the box and I shot it from 200 yds away. i must say i would not want to be shot by these bullets there was a good sized hole all the way threw it at the back the 2x12 had a hole about 1 3/4" could not find the 300 gr bullet I used (3) triple 7 pellets and it works