jaybez101099

What is everyones go to weights?
Deer?
Hogs?
Large game?
I am 250g-300g....
I always wondered with centerfire rifles my 270's use 130g......30-06's use 150g and so on. Why do we need such heavy bullets with the blkpowder?

cayugad

Well I thought about this whole thing once. Everyone used large bullets, yet a 177 grain .50 caliber roundball was killing game years ago. The 224 grain .54 caliber roundball is considered deadly on large game.

I wonder if a lot of the early rifles just did not shoot the light stuff well because of sabot design, or barrel rifling. Although there are benefit to the large heavy bullet weights.

Grouse45

I really wonder that myself.

driftrider

I shoot 300 grain .45 cal bullets, because that's what my Savage seems to like the best. It's a 1:24" twist, which is fast for a ML, so it does well with longer bullets, but may over stabilize the shorter ones, because they always seem less accurate.

Mike

lemoyne

I guess I feel that the differance is easy to understand and hard to explain.
A .270 bullet applied to the proper places at 3000 FPS induces hydrostatic shock.
A 45 cal bullet that opens properly or a 54 cal ball of pure lead at 2000 FPS induces about the same amount of hydrostatic shock when applied to the same place.
Now how many people understand hydrostatic shock?
My version of it, when you hit the knot of arteries and veins right over the top of the heart the shock wave travels through the blood the same as the pressure travels through the break system of a car when you stomp the brakes, only in an animal when it is done right it jellies the brain and the animal drops right there. No blood trail needed.
The key to getting this kind of a result is careful shot placement, if you get both lungs the distance the animal will go is limited but if you don't hit the right area it will run, and the best bullet helps but is not a cure all, no matter how good the bullet is it can not do its job in the wrong location.
So the combination of velocity, caliber. bullet action,shot placement, and enegry level to get the best results.
I think my self the .270 at 3000and the .54 caliber PRB are a good demonstration of that, because only certain .45 cal bullets give an equal comparison. The .40 cal is not to be overlooked either at 2200 it can give excellant results. Hope this helps. And I wonder just how many will disagree with me on this. Lee

oldsmellhound

I use .40 cal 200 grain bullets (XTP's or SST's) - worked well for me. I wouldn't have any hesitation using a 158 grain .357 bullet for deer hunting either - people have used this bullet with the .357 mag/max for many, many years with success, and out of a ML you're going to get higher velocity and more energy.

It all goes back to the small & fast versus big & slow argument - something that's been discussed for longer than I've been alive. Personally, I think there are merits to both arguments and situations where one works better than the other. For example, for big, tough or dangerous game (i.e. big hogs) that you're hunting at close range, I'd prefer something like a 460 grain conical over a 200 grain pistol bullet.

spaniel

Also do not forget sectional density. The lighter centerfire bullets are much longer for caliber due to the twists used. A similarly weighted .40, .45 or .50 bullet would be very short. For the frontal area, there would be much less energy behind it and penetration would be much worse. A heavier bullet is needed just to maintain penetration.

sabotloader

Lee

It has been my thought all along that I demand that the 'hydrostatic shock' need to occur in the animal. For years I called it 'Hydrualic Shock' as I understood fluid properties a bit. One of the keys for me is that I believe that this shock effect helps 'over-ride' the 'flight' response of the animal. Often the 'flight' response can occur even if the animal is dead, but if the internal shock is great enough it often seems to over-ride even the delayed 'flight' response.

Further, I believe this fluid shock is directly connected to the design of the bullet. All bullets applied in the right spot will create some fluid shock, but not all bullets are as effecient at it as others. Finding the one that are effecient is the key and the search for me. In that search I have often deserted the best looking or the most areodynamic bullets.

I am/was big believer in the power of the 270 and mostly the power of the little .277/130 grain bullet. With that gun and that bullet with its veloicity and energy it could perform assume acts on animals. For years I used it on anything Idaho had to offer.

In the ML I like to shoot light fast flat bullets that perform... the biggy is the fast part - the part that creates energy... and the faster you shoot the projectile the stronger it has to be just to stay together.

A friend of mine is convinced that a .40/200 grain from a ML will work very well on an elk, and often it might/would. But, what about the times when it might not and in those cases because I can not get the velocity to achieve the energy i do choose to shoot a heavier bullet that with less velocities will produce greater energy over a longer range of yardage, but then again you still have to find the bullet that will stay together and product that massive shock - well you don have to but in the case of elk it could be a lot more difficult packing trip or even loss of an animal.

Sorry for the rambling - it makes sense in my mind - but I hate writing

lemoyne

Mike, the ability to be able to consistently deliver hydrostatic shock decreases with the size of the animal, it can be done, but not many of us can tote a gun that big or want to. I believe as the size of the animal increases we have to trade shock for penetration to be sure of doing the job right. But when the animal is under 400 pounds I believe shock can eliminate some problems. I also believe that a lot of bullets that are complained about are a problem to some people because they did not do enough home work to be using them at the right velocity. I have never had a bullet pencil on me, and to be honest I don't expect I ever will. There are some that are designed for use at levels that are not available to a muzzle loader and some that are designed to be use at the lower velocity we can reach and some at the upper velocity we can reach. BH really opened some doors for me there as I go by pressure levels for my loads. Lee

sabotloader

Lee

Pretty much agreement... I have never had the pencil effect that I recall but I have had them come apart, Hornady's mostly being shot to fast and a couple of Speers...

I think you are totally correct here, but I also think there are bullets out there that do exactly what you and definitely what i want in that big animal. The do provide the shock and they do penetrate. More importantly they can do this over a wide range of velocites.