To Swab Or Not To Swab?
03-20-2009, 04:25 PM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,607
To Swab Or Not To Swab?
I thought I’d share this, hopefully someone will find use for it.
I shot this group several months ago with my 700ML. I don't mind swabbing between shots. However, there are times when I’m coyote huntin’ that I’d like to be able to reload quickly before the second one gets away
So I wanted to see what kind of accuracy I could get without swabbing.
The plan was to shoot 3 w/out swabbing then shoot 3 swabbing in between shots w/1 alcohol and 1 dry patch and compare. I fouled the barrel then I shot 3. As you can see they were all over the place. That group measured 1 5/8. So then I cleaned the barrel real well and shot 3 swabbing in between shots. Those turned out nicely
- and yes I was afraid to shoot again
As you can see, there is quite a bit difference in accuracy between the two. I’m sure not every gun is affected by swabbing like this but from my experience the majority are. I can’t really explain why the ones shot on the fouled barrel shot higher though.
50 Yards
700ML
110g 777 2f
200g XTP
Blue Harvester Crush Rib
Kleanbore Primer
I shot this group several months ago with my 700ML. I don't mind swabbing between shots. However, there are times when I’m coyote huntin’ that I’d like to be able to reload quickly before the second one gets away
So I wanted to see what kind of accuracy I could get without swabbing.The plan was to shoot 3 w/out swabbing then shoot 3 swabbing in between shots w/1 alcohol and 1 dry patch and compare. I fouled the barrel then I shot 3. As you can see they were all over the place. That group measured 1 5/8. So then I cleaned the barrel real well and shot 3 swabbing in between shots. Those turned out nicely
- and yes I was afraid to shoot again As you can see, there is quite a bit difference in accuracy between the two. I’m sure not every gun is affected by swabbing like this but from my experience the majority are. I can’t really explain why the ones shot on the fouled barrel shot higher though.
50 Yards
700ML
110g 777 2f
200g XTP
Blue Harvester Crush Rib
Kleanbore Primer
03-20-2009, 04:59 PM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,425
RE: To Swab Or Not To Swab?
First...You are a fast loading son of a gun to shoot, reload and kill that other coyote...
Second...The reason the fouled shots hit high is because of the residue left in the barrel...This slows the bullet down and allows the recoil to kick the bullet higher...
As your gun shows, part of the equation of accuracy in a muzzleloader is consistancy...A clean barrel is part of this...
Second...The reason the fouled shots hit high is because of the residue left in the barrel...This slows the bullet down and allows the recoil to kick the bullet higher...
As your gun shows, part of the equation of accuracy in a muzzleloader is consistancy...A clean barrel is part of this...
03-20-2009, 05:18 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,607
RE: To Swab Or Not To Swab?
ORIGINAL: nchawkeye
First...You are a fast loading son of a gun to shoot, reload and kill that other coyote...
Second...The reason the fouled shots hit high is because of the residue left in the barrel...This slows the bullet down and allows the recoil to kick the bullet higher...
First...You are a fast loading son of a gun to shoot, reload and kill that other coyote...
Second...The reason the fouled shots hit high is because of the residue left in the barrel...This slows the bullet down and allows the recoil to kick the bullet higher...
That makes sense about the residue... Thanks forthe insightnchawkeye
03-20-2009, 05:20 PM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
RE: To Swab Or Not To Swab?
The only powder that shoots better with out swabbing is Blackhorn 209. I have quite a number of guns and the only other ones that shoot well with out swabbing every shot is traditional with BB. Lee
03-20-2009, 05:29 PM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Camp Lejeune, NC
Posts: 3,869
RE: To Swab Or Not To Swab?
I like to try to recreate the bore condition that I will have when hunting. I shoot BH209 so I don't need to swab but when I practice I am shooting to better my hunting load. I start by running several try patches to get as much oil out of the bore as I can. Then I run an alcohol patch to disolve what remaining oil there is. Then a few more dry patches. Then I foul the bore with one primer. Then dump the powder in and then the sabot/bullet. I know it probably doesn't make that big of a different, but I ensure that one of the pedal openings on the sabot is at directly 12 o'clock when loading. I do this every time so in theory the sabot will be in the same position every time I load. After that I go ahead and take my shot. If the shot isn't dead center, I adjust my scope to make it dead center. That's the condition my bore is going to be in when hunting so that's the bore condition I practice with.
After I've fired I clean the bore again. I run a patch with Hoppes, then a dry patch, then flip that dry patch and run it again. Then another patch with Hoppes, then another dry patch, flit it over and run it again. Then another dry patch, flip it over and run it again. The I pull the breech plug and clean it. And then I fire another fouling primer. I do that in between every shot to recreate hunting bore conditions as closely as possible. Ususally that second shot is pretty darn close to where the first one impacted.
After I've fired I clean the bore again. I run a patch with Hoppes, then a dry patch, then flip that dry patch and run it again. Then another patch with Hoppes, then another dry patch, flit it over and run it again. Then another dry patch, flip it over and run it again. The I pull the breech plug and clean it. And then I fire another fouling primer. I do that in between every shot to recreate hunting bore conditions as closely as possible. Ususally that second shot is pretty darn close to where the first one impacted.
03-20-2009, 05:33 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,607
RE: To Swab Or Not To Swab?
ORIGINAL: lemoyne
The only powder that shoots better with out swabbing is Blackhorn 209. I have quite a number of guns and the only other ones that shoot well with out swabbing every shot is traditional with BB. Lee
The only powder that shoots better with out swabbing is Blackhorn 209. I have quite a number of guns and the only other ones that shoot well with out swabbing every shot is traditional with BB. Lee
It will flat shoot 777 so I will just keep shooting it in the 700 and leave shooting BHto the Genesis.
03-20-2009, 05:36 PM
#8
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: To Swab Or Not To Swab?
I have tested this same thing with a number of different rifles and the results are very similar to yours. When I swab, slow down, and take my time, there is a dramatic increase in accuracy with the rifle.
03-21-2009, 01:50 AM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: To Swab Or Not To Swab?
ORIGINAL: SWThomas
I like to try to recreate the bore condition that I will have when hunting. I shoot BH209 so I don't need to swab but when I practice I am shooting to better my hunting load. I start by running several try patches to get as much oil out of the bore as I can. Then I run an alcohol patch to disolve what remaining oil there is. Then a few more dry patches. Then I foul the bore with one primer. Then dump the powder in and then the sabot/bullet. I know it probably doesn't make that big of a different, but I ensure that one of the pedal openings on the sabot is at directly 12 o'clock when loading. I do this every time so in theory the sabot will be in the same position every time I load. After that I go ahead and take my shot. If the shot isn't dead center, I adjust my scope to make it dead center. That's the condition my bore is going to be in when hunting so that's the bore condition I practice with.
After I've fired I clean the bore again. I run a patch with Hoppes, then a dry patch, then flip that dry patch and run it again. Then another patch with Hoppes, then another dry patch, flit it over and run it again. Then another dry patch, flip it over and run it again. The I pull the breech plug and clean it. And then I fire another fouling primer. I do that in between every shot to recreate hunting bore conditions as closely as possible. Ususally that second shot is pretty darn close to where the first one impacted.
I like to try to recreate the bore condition that I will have when hunting. I shoot BH209 so I don't need to swab but when I practice I am shooting to better my hunting load. I start by running several try patches to get as much oil out of the bore as I can. Then I run an alcohol patch to disolve what remaining oil there is. Then a few more dry patches. Then I foul the bore with one primer. Then dump the powder in and then the sabot/bullet. I know it probably doesn't make that big of a different, but I ensure that one of the pedal openings on the sabot is at directly 12 o'clock when loading. I do this every time so in theory the sabot will be in the same position every time I load. After that I go ahead and take my shot. If the shot isn't dead center, I adjust my scope to make it dead center. That's the condition my bore is going to be in when hunting so that's the bore condition I practice with.
After I've fired I clean the bore again. I run a patch with Hoppes, then a dry patch, then flip that dry patch and run it again. Then another patch with Hoppes, then another dry patch, flit it over and run it again. Then another dry patch, flip it over and run it again. The I pull the breech plug and clean it. And then I fire another fouling primer. I do that in between every shot to recreate hunting bore conditions as closely as possible. Ususally that second shot is pretty darn close to where the first one impacted.
General rule, if you can feel the resistence going down (gritty grindy sound), then accuracy will suffer, if everything is the same going down---i.e. nice and smooth, little resistence but a tight fit with quite a bit of force, that is just right. I have found the Crushed Rib sabot works well for me in my Savage with all .458 bullet, my theory is that the grooves in the side allow the residue in the barrel a place to go.I also like CR for Omega, but I did use the Barnes MZ supplied sabot and they worked well for 1st shot. In general I like the CR better from a residue pov for Blackhorn and smokeless, just my experience, but hopefully it makes sense. Consistency shot to shot is the name of the game, anything you can do in the swab/no swab department to make things more consistent is best.
Chap
03-21-2009, 04:57 AM
#10
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
RE: To Swab Or Not To Swab?
TNHagies
Should check with Sabot loader on this but if I remember correctly he uses a small mag rifle primer in a 2520 case on the adapted breach plug that Precision Rifle sells which also eliminates blow back.
I am interested in this myself as they have come up with a set up that uses large rifle primers, I may try that in my Omega my Triumph has no blow back any way so it is not needed there. Must make a choice between selling the Omega and buying an other Triumph for a back up or going to the case in breach plug method which is illegal here. Lee
Should check with Sabot loader on this but if I remember correctly he uses a small mag rifle primer in a 2520 case on the adapted breach plug that Precision Rifle sells which also eliminates blow back.
I am interested in this myself as they have come up with a set up that uses large rifle primers, I may try that in my Omega my Triumph has no blow back any way so it is not needed there. Must make a choice between selling the Omega and buying an other Triumph for a back up or going to the case in breach plug method which is illegal here. Lee