Putting Lehigh bullets to the test.
03-17-2009, 07:19 AM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Camp Lejeune, NC
Posts: 3,869
RE: Putting Lehigh bullets to the test.
ORIGINAL: Grouse45
SwThomas, your wrong about me for sure. I could care less what anybody thinks about me. I hope the people who dont like me dont read what i have to offer. I make absolutely know money at all. This sight got over 1400 hits from one thread i wrote that got deleted. Who's making the money now? Look thru the different threads, how far back do you gotta go to see over 1000 views?
There's that arrogance again...
I clearly stated on three boards i have not shot anything with these bullets. You are the only person who doesnt understand that for some reason. I talk about the bullets because i like them. If i didnt like them i wouldnt talk about them.
Apparently I'm not the only one who doesn't understand based on some of the other comments in the threads you've posted.
How come you dont complain about Parker bullets? That's the best bullet i have ever used on game to date. Why arent you commenting about that? Why arent you commenting about scopes i use? Muzzleloaders i use? Why these bullets so much?
I'm just making a wild guess here but maybe it's because you aren't making numerous posts about Parker bullets or scopes or muzzleloaders. Just a guess though.
I post on Graybeard, Dougs, and here. More post's on those two boards then here. Nobody has a problem at all. The guy's that are interested in Lehigh bullets, ask about them. The one's that arent dont post or comment. Why would i comment on something i have no interest in? I wont.
I'm not denying at all that you are interested in these bullets. On the contrary, it's obvious you're very interested in seeing these bullets sell. And that would spell out BIAS to pretty much anyone who can read.
I dont have time to sit behind a computer and pick apart what people write. If it interest's me i post, if not i dont. I like to post actual results and info i have found in the field and on the range. what anybody decides to do with it is up to them. Alot of people appreciate it. Then there's people who dont care and dont post.
You may not have time to sit behind a computer and pick apart what people write but you sure as hell have plenty of time to post numerous threads about Lehigh bullets. And reply to posts about Lehigh bullets. And reply to my posts. It's pretty apparent that you have more time than you're leading on. You forget that we can see who's online at the top of this forum and you sir areALWAYS online.
As far as coming to this sight i was invited. Somebody thought most people would enjoy what i do on my spare time. That is shooting Muzzleloaders and hunting. It is not cheap at all to do this. If it becomes aggrivation for me and having to deal with this crap, it isnt worth it at all. I have no problems answering questions that are on topic. Any others can be done by email.
I've already said that you do a great job posting range results. It's all the hyping of Lehigh bullets and advertising for them that rubs me wrong.
Let's touch base on why i was banned from Modern Muzzleloader again.
Anybody can log in over there and see all my 4000 plus post's. Anyone can email Chuck Hill the owner and ask him. Here again your concerned with something that's none of your bussiness. I have said it several times and i will say it again. We have had a disagreement on couple different things. That's it. Here's your chance, prove me a liar. Go ahead and email Chuck and ask him. Cut and paste his email right on here. If i was him, i would be concerned with you. Actually people like you, was one of our disagreements.
It's funny you say that because I already asked Chuck why you were banned from his site. I was curious if it had anything to do with the same crap you're pulling over here. He said he didn't want to comment on it and I respect that. So in that aspect you are correct, it's none of my business.
SwThomas, i wish i could tell you something you wanna hear, but i cant. Your causing trouble on another thread of mine and it will end up being deleted as well. You have nothing to offer but trouble and i see know sign of that changing. Please just stay away from all my threads, that's the best advice i could give you.
You've already answered pretty much all of the questions I had about you. And it's obvious to me that I was pretty accurate in my assumptions. Thanks for the advice but I think I will continue to exercise my privelages as a member here and read any topic I want. If you don't want me to comment in your threads, quit posting them. Common sense would tell me that if I didn't want other to comment on something, I sure as hell wouldn't post it in an internet forum. But I don't know why it's called common sense when it's so uncommon.
SwThomas, your wrong about me for sure. I could care less what anybody thinks about me. I hope the people who dont like me dont read what i have to offer. I make absolutely know money at all. This sight got over 1400 hits from one thread i wrote that got deleted. Who's making the money now? Look thru the different threads, how far back do you gotta go to see over 1000 views?
There's that arrogance again...
I clearly stated on three boards i have not shot anything with these bullets. You are the only person who doesnt understand that for some reason. I talk about the bullets because i like them. If i didnt like them i wouldnt talk about them.
Apparently I'm not the only one who doesn't understand based on some of the other comments in the threads you've posted.
How come you dont complain about Parker bullets? That's the best bullet i have ever used on game to date. Why arent you commenting about that? Why arent you commenting about scopes i use? Muzzleloaders i use? Why these bullets so much?
I'm just making a wild guess here but maybe it's because you aren't making numerous posts about Parker bullets or scopes or muzzleloaders. Just a guess though.
I post on Graybeard, Dougs, and here. More post's on those two boards then here. Nobody has a problem at all. The guy's that are interested in Lehigh bullets, ask about them. The one's that arent dont post or comment. Why would i comment on something i have no interest in? I wont.
I'm not denying at all that you are interested in these bullets. On the contrary, it's obvious you're very interested in seeing these bullets sell. And that would spell out BIAS to pretty much anyone who can read.
I dont have time to sit behind a computer and pick apart what people write. If it interest's me i post, if not i dont. I like to post actual results and info i have found in the field and on the range. what anybody decides to do with it is up to them. Alot of people appreciate it. Then there's people who dont care and dont post.
You may not have time to sit behind a computer and pick apart what people write but you sure as hell have plenty of time to post numerous threads about Lehigh bullets. And reply to posts about Lehigh bullets. And reply to my posts. It's pretty apparent that you have more time than you're leading on. You forget that we can see who's online at the top of this forum and you sir areALWAYS online.
As far as coming to this sight i was invited. Somebody thought most people would enjoy what i do on my spare time. That is shooting Muzzleloaders and hunting. It is not cheap at all to do this. If it becomes aggrivation for me and having to deal with this crap, it isnt worth it at all. I have no problems answering questions that are on topic. Any others can be done by email.
I've already said that you do a great job posting range results. It's all the hyping of Lehigh bullets and advertising for them that rubs me wrong.
Let's touch base on why i was banned from Modern Muzzleloader again.
Anybody can log in over there and see all my 4000 plus post's. Anyone can email Chuck Hill the owner and ask him. Here again your concerned with something that's none of your bussiness. I have said it several times and i will say it again. We have had a disagreement on couple different things. That's it. Here's your chance, prove me a liar. Go ahead and email Chuck and ask him. Cut and paste his email right on here. If i was him, i would be concerned with you. Actually people like you, was one of our disagreements.
It's funny you say that because I already asked Chuck why you were banned from his site. I was curious if it had anything to do with the same crap you're pulling over here. He said he didn't want to comment on it and I respect that. So in that aspect you are correct, it's none of my business.
SwThomas, i wish i could tell you something you wanna hear, but i cant. Your causing trouble on another thread of mine and it will end up being deleted as well. You have nothing to offer but trouble and i see know sign of that changing. Please just stay away from all my threads, that's the best advice i could give you.
You've already answered pretty much all of the questions I had about you. And it's obvious to me that I was pretty accurate in my assumptions. Thanks for the advice but I think I will continue to exercise my privelages as a member here and read any topic I want. If you don't want me to comment in your threads, quit posting them. Common sense would tell me that if I didn't want other to comment on something, I sure as hell wouldn't post it in an internet forum. But I don't know why it's called common sense when it's so uncommon.
03-17-2009, 07:21 AM
#22
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: Putting Lehigh bullets to the test.
I think every one has or has used a favorite bullet. There are some projectiles that when we hunt with them, we have a confidence inwhat we shoot because we feel they have the highest probability of a clean harvest. Mine for instance is large conical bullets. But that conical or even large roundball,match the area I hunt, what I hunt, and they do just what I want them to do.
I am glad to see people trying and testing other projectiles that are out there on the market. Its the only way we will learn if the product being tested are a good projectile or not. Just like some of the rifles, primers, cleaning products, lubesand powders we use.
I will be curious as to how well the projectiles will work,that Grouse will use on the upcoming hog hunt work. We know from his prior reports that they have some excellent accuracy potential. The make up and design of the bullet would "suggest" that it will be a good harvesting projectile.
His April hog hunt will answer a lot more questions. That is if he has good luck. So good luck again on the hunt.
I am glad to see people trying and testing other projectiles that are out there on the market. Its the only way we will learn if the product being tested are a good projectile or not. Just like some of the rifles, primers, cleaning products, lubesand powders we use.
I will be curious as to how well the projectiles will work,that Grouse will use on the upcoming hog hunt work. We know from his prior reports that they have some excellent accuracy potential. The make up and design of the bullet would "suggest" that it will be a good harvesting projectile.
His April hog hunt will answer a lot more questions. That is if he has good luck. So good luck again on the hunt.
03-17-2009, 07:26 AM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Camp Lejeune, NC
Posts: 3,869
RE: Putting Lehigh bullets to the test.
ORIGINAL: sabotloader
ronlaughlin
Amen...
The one thing you did not mention is that it is known fact that a Nosler will expand over a wider range of velocity than any other bullet.
ronlaughlin
Just my opinion, but a better performing bullet has not been produced, since John invented the partition in 1947. Sure, there are 'prettier' bullets out there, and there are certainly bullets that fly better, but when it comes to tissue damage and penetration, is there anything better? Besides, the partition B.C. is plenty good for shots to 200 yd; even some beyond.
The one thing you did not mention is that it is known fact that a Nosler will expand over a wider range of velocity than any other bullet.
I'm not afraid to admit that I'm wrong because like I said, there is a lot about muzzleloading that I do not know. So if you fellas are saying there is data out there to prove that Nosler bullets are that good, I'm inclined to believe you.
03-17-2009, 07:58 AM
#24
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Putting Lehigh bullets to the test.
SWThomas
One of my kids is a Barnes shooter and he is a firm believer but I still tell him he is crazy for not shooting a Nosler Partition, but he is still OK in my book - I will keep him.
You are right about the nose lead sometimes coming out of the tip of the Nosler but that that nose lead is why the Nosler will expand easier and over a wider range of velocities than other bullets. Also remember the nose lead is a very small portion of the total weight of the bullet. When the nose of the Nosler contacts the lead is compressed and starts the copper split that forms the petals... once the petals reach the partition expansion is over and now the bullet continues to drive and turn. On the other hand the Barnes requires a little more pressure to start that expansion because copper is stronger than than lead. That also make it possible for a Barnes to pencil it's way through athinned skinned whitetail at CLOSE range and close range only.
I have shot 2 elk with a ML and a Nosler - the first one a decent bull was ony60 yards away the second a mid sized cow was a 170+ yards - That one was impressive.... I never saw her fall but she was nailed... she turned 180degrees and fell....
Here is a story pic of the event....
Here is the recovered Nosler - yes it lost some weight but what percentage? and all of the weight loss insured expansion though soft tissue.
Would a Barnes been this effective? yep! it probably would be but.... I know a Nosler Partition will
It is all just a matter of personal preference...
That is why you are in uniform to protect our right to have some personal choices...
One of my kids is a Barnes shooter and he is a firm believer but I still tell him he is crazy for not shooting a Nosler Partition, but he is still OK in my book - I will keep him.
You are right about the nose lead sometimes coming out of the tip of the Nosler but that that nose lead is why the Nosler will expand easier and over a wider range of velocities than other bullets. Also remember the nose lead is a very small portion of the total weight of the bullet. When the nose of the Nosler contacts the lead is compressed and starts the copper split that forms the petals... once the petals reach the partition expansion is over and now the bullet continues to drive and turn. On the other hand the Barnes requires a little more pressure to start that expansion because copper is stronger than than lead. That also make it possible for a Barnes to pencil it's way through athinned skinned whitetail at CLOSE range and close range only.
I have shot 2 elk with a ML and a Nosler - the first one a decent bull was ony60 yards away the second a mid sized cow was a 170+ yards - That one was impressive.... I never saw her fall but she was nailed... she turned 180degrees and fell....
Here is a story pic of the event....
Here is the recovered Nosler - yes it lost some weight but what percentage? and all of the weight loss insured expansion though soft tissue.
Would a Barnes been this effective? yep! it probably would be but.... I know a Nosler Partition will
It is all just a matter of personal preference...
That is why you are in uniform to protect our right to have some personal choices...
03-17-2009, 08:49 AM
#27
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
RE: Putting Lehigh bullets to the test.
ORIGINAL: SWThomas
My responses are posted above in bold and underlined.
ORIGINAL: Grouse45
SwThomas, your wrong about me for sure. I could care less what anybody thinks about me. I hope the people who dont like me dont read what i have to offer. I make absolutely know money at all. This sight got over 1400 hits from one thread i wrote that got deleted. Who's making the money now? Look thru the different threads, how far back do you gotta go to see over 1000 views?
There's that arrogance again...
I clearly stated on three boards i have not shot anything with these bullets. You are the only person who doesnt understand that for some reason. I talk about the bullets because i like them. If i didnt like them i wouldnt talk about them.
Apparently I'm not the only one who doesn't understand based on some of the other comments in the threads you've posted.
How come you dont complain about Parker bullets? That's the best bullet i have ever used on game to date. Why arent you commenting about that? Why arent you commenting about scopes i use? Muzzleloaders i use? Why these bullets so much?
I'm just making a wild guess here but maybe it's because you aren't making numerous posts about Parker bullets or scopes or muzzleloaders. Just a guess though.
I post on Graybeard, Dougs, and here. More post's on those two boards then here. Nobody has a problem at all. The guy's that are interested in Lehigh bullets, ask about them. The one's that arent dont post or comment. Why would i comment on something i have no interest in? I wont.
I'm not denying at all that you are interested in these bullets. On the contrary, it's obvious you're very interested in seeing these bullets sell. And that would spell out BIAS to pretty much anyone who can read.
I dont have time to sit behind a computer and pick apart what people write. If it interest's me i post, if not i dont. I like to post actual results and info i have found in the field and on the range. what anybody decides to do with it is up to them. Alot of people appreciate it. Then there's people who dont care and dont post.
You may not have time to sit behind a computer and pick apart what people write but you sure as hell have plenty of time to post numerous threads about Lehigh bullets. And reply to posts about Lehigh bullets. And reply to my posts. It's pretty apparent that you have more time than you're leading on. You forget that we can see who's online at the top of this forum and you sir areALWAYS online.
As far as coming to this sight i was invited. Somebody thought most people would enjoy what i do on my spare time. That is shooting Muzzleloaders and hunting. It is not cheap at all to do this. If it becomes aggrivation for me and having to deal with this crap, it isnt worth it at all. I have no problems answering questions that are on topic. Any others can be done by email.
I've already said that you do a great job posting range results. It's all the hyping of Lehigh bullets and advertising for them that rubs me wrong.
Let's touch base on why i was banned from Modern Muzzleloader again.
Anybody can log in over there and see all my 4000 plus post's. Anyone can email Chuck Hill the owner and ask him. Here again your concerned with something that's none of your bussiness. I have said it several times and i will say it again. We have had a disagreement on couple different things. That's it. Here's your chance, prove me a liar. Go ahead and email Chuck and ask him. Cut and paste his email right on here. If i was him, i would be concerned with you. Actually people like you, was one of our disagreements.
It's funny you say that because I already asked Chuck why you were banned from his site. I was curious if it had anything to do with the same crap you're pulling over here. He said he didn't want to comment on it and I respect that. So in that aspect you are correct, it's none of my business.
SwThomas, i wish i could tell you something you wanna hear, but i cant. Your causing trouble on another thread of mine and it will end up being deleted as well. You have nothing to offer but trouble and i see know sign of that changing. Please just stay away from all my threads, that's the best advice i could give you.
You've already answered pretty much all of the questions I had about you. And it's obvious to me that I was pretty accurate in my assumptions. Thanks for the advice but I think I will continue to exercise my privelages as a member here and read any topic I want. If you don't want me to comment in your threads, quit posting them. Common sense would tell me that if I didn't want other to comment on something, I sure as hell wouldn't post it in an internet forum. But I don't know why it's called common sense when it's so uncommon.
SwThomas, your wrong about me for sure. I could care less what anybody thinks about me. I hope the people who dont like me dont read what i have to offer. I make absolutely know money at all. This sight got over 1400 hits from one thread i wrote that got deleted. Who's making the money now? Look thru the different threads, how far back do you gotta go to see over 1000 views?
There's that arrogance again...
I clearly stated on three boards i have not shot anything with these bullets. You are the only person who doesnt understand that for some reason. I talk about the bullets because i like them. If i didnt like them i wouldnt talk about them.
Apparently I'm not the only one who doesn't understand based on some of the other comments in the threads you've posted.
How come you dont complain about Parker bullets? That's the best bullet i have ever used on game to date. Why arent you commenting about that? Why arent you commenting about scopes i use? Muzzleloaders i use? Why these bullets so much?
I'm just making a wild guess here but maybe it's because you aren't making numerous posts about Parker bullets or scopes or muzzleloaders. Just a guess though.
I post on Graybeard, Dougs, and here. More post's on those two boards then here. Nobody has a problem at all. The guy's that are interested in Lehigh bullets, ask about them. The one's that arent dont post or comment. Why would i comment on something i have no interest in? I wont.
I'm not denying at all that you are interested in these bullets. On the contrary, it's obvious you're very interested in seeing these bullets sell. And that would spell out BIAS to pretty much anyone who can read.
I dont have time to sit behind a computer and pick apart what people write. If it interest's me i post, if not i dont. I like to post actual results and info i have found in the field and on the range. what anybody decides to do with it is up to them. Alot of people appreciate it. Then there's people who dont care and dont post.
You may not have time to sit behind a computer and pick apart what people write but you sure as hell have plenty of time to post numerous threads about Lehigh bullets. And reply to posts about Lehigh bullets. And reply to my posts. It's pretty apparent that you have more time than you're leading on. You forget that we can see who's online at the top of this forum and you sir areALWAYS online.
As far as coming to this sight i was invited. Somebody thought most people would enjoy what i do on my spare time. That is shooting Muzzleloaders and hunting. It is not cheap at all to do this. If it becomes aggrivation for me and having to deal with this crap, it isnt worth it at all. I have no problems answering questions that are on topic. Any others can be done by email.
I've already said that you do a great job posting range results. It's all the hyping of Lehigh bullets and advertising for them that rubs me wrong.
Let's touch base on why i was banned from Modern Muzzleloader again.
Anybody can log in over there and see all my 4000 plus post's. Anyone can email Chuck Hill the owner and ask him. Here again your concerned with something that's none of your bussiness. I have said it several times and i will say it again. We have had a disagreement on couple different things. That's it. Here's your chance, prove me a liar. Go ahead and email Chuck and ask him. Cut and paste his email right on here. If i was him, i would be concerned with you. Actually people like you, was one of our disagreements.
It's funny you say that because I already asked Chuck why you were banned from his site. I was curious if it had anything to do with the same crap you're pulling over here. He said he didn't want to comment on it and I respect that. So in that aspect you are correct, it's none of my business.
SwThomas, i wish i could tell you something you wanna hear, but i cant. Your causing trouble on another thread of mine and it will end up being deleted as well. You have nothing to offer but trouble and i see know sign of that changing. Please just stay away from all my threads, that's the best advice i could give you.
You've already answered pretty much all of the questions I had about you. And it's obvious to me that I was pretty accurate in my assumptions. Thanks for the advice but I think I will continue to exercise my privelages as a member here and read any topic I want. If you don't want me to comment in your threads, quit posting them. Common sense would tell me that if I didn't want other to comment on something, I sure as hell wouldn't post it in an internet forum. But I don't know why it's called common sense when it's so uncommon.
03-17-2009, 08:52 AM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Coralville, IA. USA
Posts: 3,802
RE: Putting Lehigh bullets to the test.
No doubt the Nosler Partition is a great bullet, probably the best lead-cores SP hunting bullet ever made. That being said, I like Barnes. I had the same skepticism about the ability of Barnes X bullets to open up quickly enough to create a good wound channel, especially as lower velocities. But if you get the chance (and have a high speed connection because the videos are big), go over to the Barnes website and check out the video they have there of a 180 gr bullet fired from a .308 hitting 10% ballistics gel at 2000fps, which is roughly 300 yards from a typical .308 Winchester. The TSX expands fully in less than 2" of penetration and then fully penetrates the block. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that a Partition under the same circumstances wouldn't do the same (honestly, I don't know). Even assuming it performs identically, it's still going to shed weight, which means lead fragments in your deer that can be impossible to fully remove from the meat and wind up in the final product often in particles that are too small to see or feel. At standard ML velocities (1500-1900 fps), lead frag isn't as major a problem, but start pushing the ML bullets to 2000fps+ (easily achievable with modern ML's and ML propellants) and any of those lead core bullets are going to shed weight, including the Partition. The Barnes, being all copper, seem to retain 95%+ of their weight even at ultra-high velocity and at velocities below 3000fps often retain 100%, and being copper, the tiny amount of shed metal isn't going to be harmful to anyone, in fact, copper is a vital nutrient in our bodies that only becomes toxic in very large doses. So I just feel better about feeding my kids lead-free venison (and they LOVE venison! 
) Starting next year all of my hunting will be with Barnes bullets. Because I have confidence they'll perform through the entire practical range of velocities, whether I'm shooting them out of my 10ML-II with a mild 1800fps load or out of my 257 Wby at a full-throttle 3600fps. They always give me good to excellent accuracy in every rifle I've tried them in, and most importantly, my young kids (4, 2 and newborn) won't be eating lead as they wolf down venison in massive quantities.
As for the Lehigh bullets, they might be worth a try. I wonder though if the brass, which is harder than both pure copper and guilding metal, will expand adequately on game. It they do, and the costs are comparable or better, I wouldn't object to giving them a try.
Mike
) Starting next year all of my hunting will be with Barnes bullets. Because I have confidence they'll perform through the entire practical range of velocities, whether I'm shooting them out of my 10ML-II with a mild 1800fps load or out of my 257 Wby at a full-throttle 3600fps. They always give me good to excellent accuracy in every rifle I've tried them in, and most importantly, my young kids (4, 2 and newborn) won't be eating lead as they wolf down venison in massive quantities.As for the Lehigh bullets, they might be worth a try. I wonder though if the brass, which is harder than both pure copper and guilding metal, will expand adequately on game. It they do, and the costs are comparable or better, I wouldn't object to giving them a try.
Mike
