bronko22000

I would have to say YES INDEED. OK, I know one test does not support this statistically. But with results this dramatic I am convinced. Both 5 shot groups below were shot at 50 yards with my cap lock 50 cal Hawken GM LRH barrel and using 300 gr Shock Wave bullets and 100 gr of FFg. The only difference was the group on the left was with the sabots that came with the shock waves. The group on the right was using Harvester black CR sabots.
During the course of the shooting I did notice that the T/C sabots varied in the amount of pressure required to seat the bullet. Some were tight, others only moderately tight. The CRs were consistant with each loading.
On a side note - to ease Cayugad and Semisane's mind, the fouling with this rifle was about what you would expect with BP. (barrel was treated with MX BC). The only difference between today and yesterday was I swabbed the bore with 2 alcohol patches and dried prior to shooting. After each shot, the barrel was swabbed with a T/C #13 patch and 2 dry patches.

bronko22000

Oh yeah forgot to mention, that's 4 holes in the center of that target on the right. Open sights. Don't know what happened to that #4 shot? Gremlin I guess.

TNHagies

Yeah it really is amazing to see how much one component can change how a gun shoots. Just goes to show that you need to fully test several different loads and combinations before settling on a load.

I've always been a fan of Harvester products. Especially their Crush Rib offerings

Semisane

I had the same experience with 300 grain SSTs. The supplied sabots shot OK, but replacing them with Harvester short blacks cut the group size considerably.

cayugad

Bronko... the other day I shot with a MX barrel, I forgot it was and swabbed with alcohol patches like normal, popped some caps, and dried the barrel. There was no difference in fouling. Perhaps it is like all petro based oils, they have to be removed before you shoot. So you might have solved the fouling problem. Swab with alcohol like you normally do before shooting...

Also it is my understanding this Montana X-treme is basically made for center fire rifles and rifles that shoot BlackHorn 209. So again, Blackhorn being a form of smokeless powder, that would make sense.

As for the difference in sabots. I found the same thing to be true in my rifles. But that one group for open sights, absolutely outstanding!! that one out of the group.. that was a happy shot.

bronko22000

The only difference I can think of between the 45 yesterday and the 50 today is that the 50 has the old brass front bead and notched rear while the 45 has the fiber optic sights. I forgot to white out the front sight yesterday to reduce the 'glare' from the red optic.
Too the 50 is a much older barrel with lots of rounds through it while the 45 is still a 'baby'. But I know the 45 can shoot better than that. But then again, it could have been the fouling issue yesterday. Have to wait another day though. I just beat the rain today. Its pouring out right now.

cayugad

It is freezing cold here today. Hardly 0º out and very windy. We got a snow storm last night, and I had frozen water pipes this morning because of the wind and cold temps. So I had to go to the shop and get some things to clear that up this morning. And then I did a little shoveling, and fed the birds out on the edge of the yard. Well I did not have a coat on, and about froze to death before I got my shoveling done. Too windy and cold to shoot today. I just got the wood stove howling.

bronko22000

Dave - sounds like today will be a good day to tinker around the house. Maybe get a few things out of the way you've been planning to do.
I got the Hawken all cleaned up. Went back to the bore butter. I'm going to keep the MX stuff for the centerfires. See how it works in them. I just got my delivery yesterday of MX nylon bore brushes from .22 cal up to .50 cal. for use with the Cowboy solvent.
The temp here is finally above freezing. Its in the mid 40s but raining and windy.

hunting junkie

After reading this post and thinking, maybe thats why them 250 sw splattered all over the target the other
day at the range.Gonna have to test again.Real good shooting.

Semisane

And I've got the central AC cranked down to 70.

I've got the truck packed and am just about to leave for a week end at the hunting club range. It's 77 degrees outsideright now and humid as hell. I'll be sweating walking back and forth to the 100 yard target.