Sometimes I gotta scratch my head
12-28-2008, 05:40 AM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 3,732
RE: Sometimes I gotta scratch my head
Well, i can't help you with your hang fire issues, because i have never had any issues with BH209 in my Omega.
Right now my load is 105g of BH209 with W209 primer, and 300g Nosler with crush rib sabot. It works when my gun is clean or dirty, or hot or cold. My rifle stays in the pick up loaded all the time. It has been -19* here a couple of times this hunting season. The rifle sits there in the cold and when i am driving up into the hills to hunt it sits there with the heater running. The breech plug opening has been as small as 1/16" between cleanings. This means the flame area was reduced 4X. One morning i carried the rifle when it was -11* when i left the pick up and after 1 1/2 hour in that cold the rifle went off just fine. There is always electricians tape over the muzzle until the shot blows it off. The rifle hasn't been cleaned since opening day; December 13. This rifle and load have allowed me to tag 4 doe, and one turkey thus far this season, and i am as sure as one can be that it will allow me to tag my last doe in the near future.
Right now my load is 105g of BH209 with W209 primer, and 300g Nosler with crush rib sabot. It works when my gun is clean or dirty, or hot or cold. My rifle stays in the pick up loaded all the time. It has been -19* here a couple of times this hunting season. The rifle sits there in the cold and when i am driving up into the hills to hunt it sits there with the heater running. The breech plug opening has been as small as 1/16" between cleanings. This means the flame area was reduced 4X. One morning i carried the rifle when it was -11* when i left the pick up and after 1 1/2 hour in that cold the rifle went off just fine. There is always electricians tape over the muzzle until the shot blows it off. The rifle hasn't been cleaned since opening day; December 13. This rifle and load have allowed me to tag 4 doe, and one turkey thus far this season, and i am as sure as one can be that it will allow me to tag my last doe in the near future.
12-28-2008, 07:04 AM
#12
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: My Range in Central NY
Posts: 320
RE: Sometimes I gotta scratch my head
Skopia:
I have a Knight T-bolt that I am on my second jug of BH209 with. When I shot pyrodex out of it I used my own cast 370g Maxi balls or 320g REALs that I also cast. I switched to sabots this year to leave the greasy fingers at home. I had some Green CR and Speer .430 240g swaged SWCs they shot to 1.5' at 50 yrds and 3 to 4 inches at 100yrds with pyrodex. I was shooting 95 grains of Pyro RS and getting 1510 FPS on the crony. Harvested 2 deer with that load, I was happy,
I switched to BH209 after shooting my brothers new Savage with SR4759. My Knight has 21.7" of usable barrel fror the face of the BP to the Crown. Switching to BH209 I get 1580 FPS w/ 80g of BH209 same GCR sabot and .430 swaged bullet. The groups stayed the same with BH209 as Pyro. This combination loaded guite easy and never gave me a hang fire till I was standing in a stand with a group of Does at 80 yrds. on a 14* afternoon. I believe the GCR was the culprit. I did succesfully harvest 2 more Deer with this combo and BH209. (All deer had complete pass htrew with the soft swaged Bullet) the Hang Fire that I had was great
I watched burning powder in the base of the Sabot go about 50 yards, I could see it in the scope. Kinda like shooting a tracer [:-]
I have since Switched to MMP regualare Black sabots and .452 projectiles. With either the 240g or 250g xtp and BH209 I get amazing accracy. It consistantly fires 3 shots into 1 hole. groups measuring .3 to.4 at 50yrds. my crony also shows a result of a tighter seal the 240g xtps average 1616 for 3 shots and the 250s average 1620, yes just alittle faster. This is with 80g volumetric measure of BH209, my scale shows an actual wght. of 57 gr. 100g Vol. read 1770 out of my T-bolt with the 240 XTP. I am happy shooting 80g VOL. On two occasions I have shot more than 30 shots without any cleaning of any type, and no reduction of group size. I have not had good accracy results yet with my cast .452 pistol bullets, ( I have tried both pure lead, and WW nothing better than 1.5 @ 50yrds.) I may order a mold from LBT for a smoth sided bevelled base LFN in .452 260g or 280g. A bullet of lead or WW would be bad medicine for anything in it's way.
The MMP and xtp reguire and average of 35lbs to slide them down the barrel of my gun using my anolog bathroom scale as the scale. (Clean or fowled bore)thr GCR takes less that 20lbs. I now realize that I have always used an additional 50 lbs to seat any projectiles on any powder.
All BP substitutes are Smokeless powder, just read the canister!!!!!!!! true Smokeless powder was and is the origonal BP substitute. IMO BH209 is as close to true Smokeless as anything I have seen. ( I have shoot alot of SR4759 with cast bullets in suppository type rifles, I am on my 4th 4lbs canister of it in the last 15 yrs.) Smokeless powder needs a minimum consistant pressure to burn properly!!!!!!!! IMO The reason that some are getting hang fires is because of poor sabot/projectile fit, seal/back pressure/fit to maintain consistant burn pressure, or the primer that was used may be slightly smalller than the rest of the batch and it is leaking presure off there,(The reason that Western shows you what type of BP is approved/is for sealed 209s) With BH209 I have found that a tight primer fit is very important also. I am using Winchester 209s I have 4400 of them left over from the last lot of them that I bought. they fit my Brech plug snugly.
I will NEVER go back to any other powder in my 209 Black powder guns. BlackHorn 209 has a permanant place in my powder arsenal!
Ken
Central NY
I have a Knight T-bolt that I am on my second jug of BH209 with. When I shot pyrodex out of it I used my own cast 370g Maxi balls or 320g REALs that I also cast. I switched to sabots this year to leave the greasy fingers at home. I had some Green CR and Speer .430 240g swaged SWCs they shot to 1.5' at 50 yrds and 3 to 4 inches at 100yrds with pyrodex. I was shooting 95 grains of Pyro RS and getting 1510 FPS on the crony. Harvested 2 deer with that load, I was happy,
I switched to BH209 after shooting my brothers new Savage with SR4759. My Knight has 21.7" of usable barrel fror the face of the BP to the Crown. Switching to BH209 I get 1580 FPS w/ 80g of BH209 same GCR sabot and .430 swaged bullet. The groups stayed the same with BH209 as Pyro. This combination loaded guite easy and never gave me a hang fire till I was standing in a stand with a group of Does at 80 yrds. on a 14* afternoon. I believe the GCR was the culprit. I did succesfully harvest 2 more Deer with this combo and BH209. (All deer had complete pass htrew with the soft swaged Bullet) the Hang Fire that I had was great
I watched burning powder in the base of the Sabot go about 50 yards, I could see it in the scope. Kinda like shooting a tracer [:-]I have since Switched to MMP regualare Black sabots and .452 projectiles. With either the 240g or 250g xtp and BH209 I get amazing accracy. It consistantly fires 3 shots into 1 hole. groups measuring .3 to.4 at 50yrds. my crony also shows a result of a tighter seal the 240g xtps average 1616 for 3 shots and the 250s average 1620, yes just alittle faster. This is with 80g volumetric measure of BH209, my scale shows an actual wght. of 57 gr.
100g Vol. read 1770 out of my T-bolt with the 240 XTP. I am happy shooting 80g VOL. On two occasions I have shot more than 30 shots without any cleaning of any type, and no reduction of group size. I have not had good accracy results yet with my cast .452 pistol bullets, ( I have tried both pure lead, and WW nothing better than 1.5 @ 50yrds.) I may order a mold from LBT for a smoth sided bevelled base LFN in .452 260g or 280g. A bullet of lead or WW would be bad medicine for anything in it's way.The MMP and xtp reguire and average of 35lbs to slide them down the barrel of my gun using my anolog bathroom scale as the scale. (Clean or fowled bore)thr GCR takes less that 20lbs. I now realize that I have always used an additional 50 lbs to seat any projectiles on any powder.
All BP substitutes are Smokeless powder, just read the canister!!!!!!!! true Smokeless powder was and is the origonal BP substitute. IMO BH209 is as close to true Smokeless as anything I have seen. ( I have shoot alot of SR4759 with cast bullets in suppository type rifles, I am on my 4th 4lbs canister of it in the last 15 yrs.) Smokeless powder needs a minimum consistant pressure to burn properly!!!!!!!! IMO The reason that some are getting hang fires is because of poor sabot/projectile fit, seal/back pressure/fit to maintain consistant burn pressure, or the primer that was used may be slightly smalller than the rest of the batch and it is leaking presure off there,(The reason that Western shows you what type of BP is approved/is for sealed 209s) With BH209 I have found that a tight primer fit is very important also. I am using Winchester 209s I have 4400 of them left over from the last lot of them that I bought. they fit my Brech plug snugly.
I will NEVER go back to any other powder in my 209 Black powder guns. BlackHorn 209 has a permanant place in my powder arsenal!
Ken
Central NY
12-28-2008, 07:56 PM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Camp Lejeune, NC
Posts: 3,869
RE: Sometimes I gotta scratch my head
ORIGINAL: Skopia
In know way am I blamming the message, (B209).I know the messengers were at fault, (that being us). We wereprobably doing a lot of things wrong inthat brief range session. I can gaunranteethat we were shooting much too fast between shots and that is because of the fascination with not having to swab. I do believe he was using regular W209 primers. And I"ll take an educated guess and say his breech plug was not spotless.
That is why I came looking for answers on this site.
In know way am I blamming the message, (B209).I know the messengers were at fault, (that being us). We wereprobably doing a lot of things wrong inthat brief range session. I can gaunranteethat we were shooting much too fast between shots and that is because of the fascination with not having to swab. I do believe he was using regular W209 primers. And I"ll take an educated guess and say his breech plug was not spotless.
That is why I came looking for answers on this site.
