Semisane

Hey guys, remember my post a couple of weeks ago asking if anyone had tried the Harvester red crush rib sabots for smokeless powder in anything other than a Savage? http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=3206760&mpage=1&key== If you recall, it ended up with Cayugad and Sabotloader once again harassing me about Blackhorn but didn't produce any info about those sabots.

Well, I bought a pack just for the heck of it and shot one group with them on Saturday. Here's the target.



Three shots right where they should have been, but two extreme fliers. Believe me, those fliers were not shooter error. I was being extra careful and my hold and trigger work was good.

Here's what the sabots looked like after the shot.



As you can see, they seemed to make a good gas seal and the rifling engraved on the sabot. The base cupswere expanded to a much greater degree than what I get with Harvester short sabots or regular crush ribs. The plastic used for the red sabots seems to be much less elastic and harder than on the other sabots.

I can't explain why three grouped well and two went kaflooey. I shot only this one group with 120 grains T7. Maybe a different load would eliminate the fliers (or a different powder - something closer to smokeless) ?

I was ordering a supply of other sabots anyway, so addingone pack of the red onesto the order made themcheap enough to be worth trying and, as you know, I like to `spearment.

Gotbuck

That Mustang sures does well, I see them at Cabelas and they look fine. Don't know many that shoot it. By the looks of it I get more tempted each time I see it.Did you swab any during shooting? I use the Remington Kleenbores and usually get around 15 shots without cleaning and tight groups with my guns.

TNHagies

You should try some BH

spaniel

Could the flyers be from inconsistent ignition? In other words the sabot is moving from the primer before the charge ignites, or there is a difference in the pressure with which the sabot seals the powder charge between shots?

BP and subs are relatively immune to this, however smokeless is highly dependent upon consistent pressure at ignition to maintain uniform combustion and accuracy. This is why precision riflemen fret so much about neck tension in cartridge guns.

cayugad

I bet with a better powder....

All kidding aside. I never shot them red ones. And they do look like they sealed up real good. I wonder what the flyer was from. Perhaps they like a different powder charge.. higher or lower..

I guess that's another thing on my to puchase list.

bronko22000

Semi - what kind of primers were you using? I always thought that a 209 primer was a 209 primer. Until I got to reading about them playing with them. I've been using the 209s made for MLs lately with improved accuracy. Maybe a fluke but that's how its been coming out.
From what I've read, the theory behind them is that they are not as hot as a regular 209 primer which some say makes the bullet 'jump' off the main charge before it is ignited. This may be causing the flyers. But it may be worth a try.

Semisane

Bronko, I was using .25 ACP ignition with CCI small pistol primers.

Gotbuck, I started with a clean barrel and swabbed with both sides of two 91% alcohol patches between shots. Those two patches give me an almost perfectly clean bore. The first side of the second patch picks up very little color. The second side of the second patch hardly shows any color at all. You guys really need to try swabbing with pure 91% alcohol. Start with apatch that's a little wetter than what you normally use. And don't worry about the charge getting wet. That stuff drys fast, especially when the barrel is warm.

TN/Spaniel/Cayugad, yeah - I know - try Blackhorn. OK, OK, after Christmas.

I'm not used to really leaning on the ramrod to seat the bullet down hard on the charge. With regular Harvester sabots I seat the loat firm, but don't lean on the rod.For some reason I felt I should lean on the rod and seat these sabots hard, and I know I did that for some of the shots. But I've been wondering if out of habit I seated two of the shots with lighter pressure, and that caused the fliers.

bronko22000

Semi - I hope you try the different powder and let us knowit there is a difference.

And to avoid those flyers - trykeeping your eyes open when you shoot instead of "Using the Force". (Merry Christmas buddy)

Semisane

Keep your eyes open when you shoot???? Do you guys do that? Man, I WILL give that a try. Thanks for the tip Bronko!

TNHagies

I went to pure alcohol about 2 months ago. I highly recommend it as well.Someone on here I think said that they were using it to clean BH so I gave it a shot. That's when I found that it not only works well for BH cleanup but great for swabbing between shots. When I was using a 50/50 mix of alcohol and windex it would take two dry patches afterward to get it dry. Now I don't have to worry about that. One side of a dry one is about all it takes. But it's warmer her in TN that where some of you guys are.

As far as seating pressure goes, I've seen it cause all kinds of accuracy issues before. I lean on mine every load, every powder, every shot. That way I know that there's no difference from shot to shot.