forvols

Greetings all. I am brand new to ML shooting. As a gift I recieved a TC Hawken 50 calthat is about 20yrs old. Gun looks to be in excellent shape on the exterior but I dont know about the interior of the weapon. Its been hanging on the wall for the past 2yrs but I decided this year I am going to shoot and hunt with it. So I got a few questions.

1. What do I first need to do with the weapon?
I am very sure it is not loaded but how can I verify. I know I should have verified this when I received. Feel pretty stupid on that. The ramrod will go into the barrel leaving about a half inch of the ramrod sticking out of the barrel.

2. What powder? load amount? cap? bullet?
3. Is there a 209 conversion kit for a side hammer?
4. What other ML supplies do I need to get?

So any help you guys can provide is great appericated. Nice forum here too.

Thanks
Tony

cayugad

Tony welcome to the forum and the sport of muzzleloading.. you are going to really enjoy yourself. You have a great rifle by the way. Never underestimate the T/C Hawkins. It was one of the premire rifles of its day off an assembly line.

Some of the after market barrels that replaced the hand eating wooden ramrods do stick out a little more.Put on a cleaning jag on the end of the ramrod. After all you're going to have to clean the rifle anyway. Then take a cloth patch and spray or dip it with some gun solvent. Now make sure the rifle is cocked. In fact if you can, remove the nipple from the rifle. Start working that patch down the bore. Work it in short strokes of about three inches. As you work closer to the breech.. can you hear air coming out the nipple port? If you can, that is a very good indication the rifle is not loaded. So now go ahead and wipe out the bore with solvent.

Inspect that solvent patch for rust, bore butter, grime, or anything else. At this point I would pull the wedge pin and give that rifle a boiling water with dish soap bath. And let that thing soak in the water a little. What I am trying to do here is remove any bore butter, packing oils, etc. As you water bath that boiling water, it will float out the top of the barrel. Be sure to wear gloves or you will burn your hands.

After you have water bath soaked the barrel. Take some more boiling water. Carry the barrel outside and lean it against something like a railing, etc. Now pour more boiling water down that bore. That will rinse out all the other nasty stuff in there and after the water runs out, because of the heat, will almost dry the barrel.

With the barrel still hot, run some alcohol patches down the hot bore. This will pull out any more water in there. Now some dry patches. And finally put some quality gun oil on a patch and swab the bore of that rifle. Now let the barrel cool. As it cools it will draw that oil into the pores of the metal and protect itself.

Black Powder 2f or 3f, Pyrodex RS, Triple Se7en 2f or 3f, any thing but pellets. There is no use in putting pellets down that rifle. Since you're starting, try the Pyrodex RS. It is dirty, but consistant. Also get some .490 roundball. And some .015-.018 patch material. You can get pre lubed patches or you can by 100% cotton pillow tick at Wal Mart and some bore butter, and lube your own. You can also make a number of other patch lubes at home that will work as good as bore butter. I've used about every thing you can think of as a patch lube. I personally use moose milk. Its a mix I make at home. As for the amount of powder, start with 80 grains of RS and work from there. Start shooting groups and get used to it. Also buy some quality #11 caps. CCI Magnum caps, Remington, or RWS if you can find them. So not buy CCI standard caps. They will disappoint you.

There are gimmicks out there. But you do not need them. Prepare that rifle properly before firing it, and that #11 cap will work every time.

Black powder rifle supplies

DECIDE ON THE KIND OF POWDER[/b]


Pyrodex
Triple Se7en
Goex
Black Mag3
American Pioneer Powder
in loose form[/ul]


[/b]
TOOLS NEEDED[/b]
[/b]

See through powder measure
Cleaning jag
Cleaning mop
Patch worm
Bore brush
Short starter
Capper/de-capper
Loading jag for the projectile
Nipple pick
Breech plug removal tool – socket set with long extensions works also[/ul]


CLEANING SUPPLIES[/b]

Isopropyl alcohol 91%
Car windshield washer fluid
Bore butter or lube for conical bullets
Gun Oil – Birchwood Casey Sheath, REM OIL, Breakfree CLP
Q-tip safety swabs
Cleaning Patches
Bore Solvents[/ul]

Birchwood Casey Bore Scrubber
Butch’s Bore Shine
M.A.P. – Murphy’s oil soap, alcohol, hydrogen peroxide[/ol]

PROJECTILES[/b]
[/b]

Conicals
Roundball and patch[/ul]

kirkll

my advice as a fellow newby that just ran the gaunlet this last 4 months on a crash course in muzzle loading, would be take it into a muzzle loader shop first thing... if that isn't possible... buy a bore light, a good cleaning kit to include a wire brush, and nipple wrench,and roll up your sleaves...
you got your work cut out for you there.....Best thing you could do with it is fill up the bath tub with warm water and soak it for twenty minutes. if for some reason there's a load in that thing. that will kill it.

if you like tinkering and shooting a lot, and don't mind getting that black nasty powder all over you, it will probably be a lot of fun...it took me 6 weeks of tinkering and trying different amo and loads to get a consistant 2 inch group at a hundred yards with my TC Hawken. they have a 1:48 twist and shoot conical bullets fairly well with the right load. i'm told they shoot round ball pretty good too, but i couldn't get it going on myself.....lord knows you'll get a ton of advice on that...

my 50 cal Hawkensliked 70 grains of pyrodex P (Not RS) and i was using a 410 grain conical made by Hornady. "Great Plains" bullets i think there were called....from one partially seasoned rookie to another....Let the force be with you.... and remember to take your ram rod out before touching her off...LOL!

kirkll

PS..... i call BS on those caps going off "Every time". ( i got a bunch of # 11's i'll sell you cav....)going to the musket cap was the best thing i ever did. they are easier to handle and don't foul in wet weather as easily.... i live in Orgon...trust me on that one...its eay to do, just buy a muscat nipple and screw it in....your good to go...

Warning! This muzzle loading takes love a devotion to get it down....if you haven't got a bunch of time on your hands and really want another huge hobby...i'd hang it back on the wall and pick your bow back up, or get a 30-30 centerfire....Good luck!

Hammer49

Despite the bad acting, www.tc.com has a great series of "shows" under the World of Muzzleloading caption. I think you will find them very helpful (I know they helped me). Watch them all several times and yoou'll be much more comfortable cleaning the rifle, loading, going to the range, etc...

Hammer

UncleNorby

Great rifle. Clean it up as described above. Take it to the range. Get acquainted with your triggers. Rear is a set trigger, front can be used with or without the set trigger.

If you want to keep it simple this year, I can tell you that gun will almost certainly shoot 370 Gr. Maxiballs over 80-100 gr of Pyrodex RS VERY well. Certainly well enough to hunt with at ranges out to 100yds. If it were me andI had limited time, I'd sight in with 90 gr. and not look back. That load wilts deer! Maxiballs normally give full penetration on broadside shots unless you hit lots of bone.

You can mess around with different powders, projectiles like other conicals or evenroundballs in preparation fornext year if you feel the need.Roundballs are fine for deer butcan take more time and add yet another variable (patch material, thickness, etc).

Let us hear how you are progressing.

mountaineer magic

I use #11's on both my Lymans and never have a problem. In wet weather I carry it with the nipple tucked under my arm. Still no problem. If someone wants to switch to musket caps that's fine. I have never found the need and I have hunted with a traditional hawken style gun since 1982

cayugad

The only time I have ever had #11 fail was because I purchased substandard caps, or the rifle was not prepared or maintained properly. As far as heat produced by the musket and the #11 cap, the temperatures are almost identical. Granted the musket cap will produce more of it, but if the rifle is set up right, while more is better it is not necessary. Also, I hate to change the set up of the rifle. Get a stainless steel hot shot #11 nipple and you're good to go IMO.

What brand of caps did you purchase? I would be interested to know. I've hunted with #11 caps more years then I care to count, in rain, sleet, snow and sunshine. I even dropped a rifle in a creek once. Put a new cap on it and it fired just fine.

Some of the dangers of changing the set up of a rifle to shoot something it is not intended to shoot are, a musket cap can over time weaken the hammer spring causing it to fail. it can blow back the hammer to a cocked or half cock position. Anytime you're forcing something to change course that fast, I can not believe it is good for the metal and parts. Also I had a heck of a time water proofing a musket cap. Granted you can pinch the cap and make it stick to the nipple better but in most #11 caps, they will almost water proof themselves. A little birthday candle wax along the base is a good addition but if you care for the rifle you hardly need it.

Before you shoot your rifle swab the bore with pure Isopropyl Alcohol 91%. Then some dry patches. Next I take a clean patch push it to the bottom of the breech and fire a #11 cap. Pull that patch and inspect it. If if shows good burn marks, blow one more cap for good measure and then load as normal. You now a clean bore, with a dry load on a clean fire channel. A good #11 cap will fire that off.

If you are one of them that likes to put the rifle up for the night and then find the cap fails in the morning, don't blame the cap. Blame yourself and the manner in which the rifle was treated.

You are more then welcome to call BS on all of this. And use your musket caps if you feel more comfortable. But in my experience, I never saw the need for them. The only rifle I use a musket cap on is my T/C Black Mountain Magnum which came with musket cap ignition. As I mentioned, I hate to change the factory set up of the rifles.

forvols

Man, thanks for the quick info. To keep things simple I think I will go with maxiballs and Pyrodex RS for this hunting season. I did get the nipple off. I also found the box of "stuff" that was with the gun. No powder or caps but a new stainless nipple and several other items and cleaning solvents etc.

After a good scrubbing and lube tonight I hope to put some rounds through this tomorrow. Gotta make a run to my local hunting store this evening.

Iwill do more research for loads but will probably give 80-90gr RS w/370gr maxiball a try and go from there.

Thanks again fellas...pls keep the info coming. I will also try out the forum search.

Tony

sabotloader

chetmarks

I certainly have to agree with you.... I really do prefer #11 caps they seal better and stay on better... just make sure you are using #11 Mag caps vs the standard #11. #11 Mags are just as hot as a Musket cap.

In the snow or rain I just put on a nipple rin coat or wrap the area in a piece of cling wrap...

Here is a picture with an example of a cap rain coat and a piece of cling wrap wrapped around the nipple and bolster area... just pull the trigger on both no need to remove a thing...