hang fire with bh209
08-12-2008, 09:16 AM
#1
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SOUTHERN Illinois USA
Posts: 820
hang fire with bh209
you may have seen in my other post. in my knight LRH with the FPJ and the standard concave breech plug. i got about 5 hang fires. this never happened with 777. i was using w209 primers and 120gr of powder. i took the plug out and it didn't seem to dirty, i could see light through it. there was alot of blow back coming around the primer and getting on my blt face and was dirty and hard to clean up.
any ideas.
any ideas.
08-12-2008, 11:43 AM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: hang fire with bh209
outdoorsmen
I did read your other post and at the time I was reading it I thought I might interject a thought - but I didn't so I make a suggestion now. BH-209 is a smokless progressive burning powder. It requires a good pressure seal on both ends of the barrel to burn correctly. Without the seal it will not ignite and progressivly burn - in fact it might even quit burning. The better the seal the better the burn. As I remember you indicated the bullets you were using went down the barrel relatively easy... that might be the reason you were getting the hang fires.
Try a tighter fitting sabot/bullet combination and see if your problem continues. I have a Knight ELite with a MH barrel and the same breech plug you are talking about - it seems to shoot the BH-209 just fine. Although right now I do not plan to make the switch to BH - I will continue with T7
I did read your other post and at the time I was reading it I thought I might interject a thought - but I didn't so I make a suggestion now. BH-209 is a smokless progressive burning powder. It requires a good pressure seal on both ends of the barrel to burn correctly. Without the seal it will not ignite and progressivly burn - in fact it might even quit burning. The better the seal the better the burn. As I remember you indicated the bullets you were using went down the barrel relatively easy... that might be the reason you were getting the hang fires.
Try a tighter fitting sabot/bullet combination and see if your problem continues. I have a Knight ELite with a MH barrel and the same breech plug you are talking about - it seems to shoot the BH-209 just fine. Although right now I do not plan to make the switch to BH - I will continue with T7
08-12-2008, 12:04 PM
#3
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SOUTHERN Illinois USA
Posts: 820
RE: hang fire with bh209
i feel as though there is a good seal. i'm using the FPJ and the bullets were harvester 300gr scoprion pt golds with crush rib sabot and the barnes 290gr tmz with yellow sabot. the crush ribs were easier to load and the barnes were harder, both had the hangfires. i'm going to try new primers, cci 209m. i had been using the w209.
08-12-2008, 01:02 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: hang fire with bh209
ORIGINAL: outdoorsmen
i feel as though there is a good seal. i'm using the FPJ and the bullets were harvester 300gr scoprion pt golds with crush rib sabot and the barnes 290gr tmz with yellow sabot. the crush ribs were easier to load and the barnes were harder, both had the hangfires. i'm going to try new primers, cci 209m. i had been using the w209.
i feel as though there is a good seal. i'm using the FPJ and the bullets were harvester 300gr scoprion pt golds with crush rib sabot and the barnes 290gr tmz with yellow sabot. the crush ribs were easier to load and the barnes were harder, both had the hangfires. i'm going to try new primers, cci 209m. i had been using the w209.
1) seating pressure (you must compress the bullet and powder, all your weight on the bullet)
2) sabots must be tight, how tight, goldilockstight. If you can push them down with 1 hand that is too loose, if you can pound them down that is tootight. It is just right if it is tight with a lot of pressure (more than a regular inline, almost can't get them down)
3) hot primers--no 777, no clean bore, Winchester or Federal 209a.
BH is a lot like smokeless, only a bit of smoke added to it to be legal as BP substitute, you must do all three of these to get a good seal and good ignition with smokeless and BH.
Chap
08-12-2008, 01:23 PM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,607
RE: hang fire with bh209
ORIGINAL: gleason.chapman
I have a Savage, I have had hang fires with it because of
1) seating pressure (you must compress the bullet and powder, all your weight on the bullet)
2) sabots must be tight, how tight, goldilockstight. If you can push them down with 1 hand that is too loose, if you can pound them down that is tootight. It is just right if it is tight with a lot of pressure (more than a regular inline, almost can't get them down)
3) hot primers--no 777, no clean bore, Winchester or Federal 209a.
BH is a lot like smokeless, only a bit of smoke added to it to be legal as BP substitute, you must do all three of these to get a good seal and good ignition with smokeless and BH.
Chap
ORIGINAL: outdoorsmen
i feel as though there is a good seal. i'm using the FPJ and the bullets were harvester 300gr scoprion pt golds with crush rib sabot and the barnes 290gr tmz with yellow sabot. the crush ribs were easier to load and the barnes were harder, both had the hangfires. i'm going to try new primers, cci 209m. i had been using the w209.
i feel as though there is a good seal. i'm using the FPJ and the bullets were harvester 300gr scoprion pt golds with crush rib sabot and the barnes 290gr tmz with yellow sabot. the crush ribs were easier to load and the barnes were harder, both had the hangfires. i'm going to try new primers, cci 209m. i had been using the w209.
1) seating pressure (you must compress the bullet and powder, all your weight on the bullet)
2) sabots must be tight, how tight, goldilockstight. If you can push them down with 1 hand that is too loose, if you can pound them down that is tootight. It is just right if it is tight with a lot of pressure (more than a regular inline, almost can't get them down)
3) hot primers--no 777, no clean bore, Winchester or Federal 209a.
BH is a lot like smokeless, only a bit of smoke added to it to be legal as BP substitute, you must do all three of these to get a good seal and good ignition with smokeless and BH.
Chap
I by no means am an expert-you guys were probably shootin' MLs when I was still in diapers but from my limited experience, tightness of a load has not made a difference.
08-12-2008, 04:21 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: hang fire with bh209
ORIGINAL: TNHagies
Chap, I have not found the tightness of a patricular load to be a problem w/BH. Last month I was shooting some conicals and they were not tight by any means. Actually so loose I wouldn't hunt with them and I didn't have any delay w/BH. Same goes for sabots. A friend of mine has a Yukon and the other day we were shooting an he had some of the shockwave superglides that were too loose in my opinon as almost the weight of the ramrod would seat them. He didn't have any ignition issues with it either.
I by no means am an expert-you guys were probably shootin' MLs when I was still in diapers but from my limited experience, tightness of a load has not made a difference.
Chap, I have not found the tightness of a patricular load to be a problem w/BH. Last month I was shooting some conicals and they were not tight by any means. Actually so loose I wouldn't hunt with them and I didn't have any delay w/BH. Same goes for sabots. A friend of mine has a Yukon and the other day we were shooting an he had some of the shockwave superglides that were too loose in my opinon as almost the weight of the ramrod would seat them. He didn't have any ignition issues with it either.
I by no means am an expert-you guys were probably shootin' MLs when I was still in diapers but from my limited experience, tightness of a load has not made a difference.
Thanks for the report. Chap
08-12-2008, 05:25 PM
#7
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: hang fire with bh209
TNHagies
In the limited amount of BH shooting that I have done - I did find the tightness of the load to be import in the performance of the powder. I could get it to go off relativly easy (no hang fires) with the Cheddite primers I was using but the velocity was way down from what I thought it should be or what I was getting with T7. When I loaded a .458/300 grain bullet in an HPH-12 + 100 grains of BHand put that down the barrel of the White (a lot tighter but easily manageable) - I got ignition and velocity - course I also pushed the primmer out of the breech plug and blew the primer into bits and pieces.
In the limited amount of BH shooting that I have done - I did find the tightness of the load to be import in the performance of the powder. I could get it to go off relativly easy (no hang fires) with the Cheddite primers I was using but the velocity was way down from what I thought it should be or what I was getting with T7. When I loaded a .458/300 grain bullet in an HPH-12 + 100 grains of BHand put that down the barrel of the White (a lot tighter but easily manageable) - I got ignition and velocity - course I also pushed the primmer out of the breech plug and blew the primer into bits and pieces.
08-12-2008, 05:40 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,607
RE: hang fire with bh209
That's interesting... it appears that BH might vary from gun to gun like other BP subs. My friend who I mentioned earlier that shot the superglides shot a2in group @ 100 w/it. Don't know...
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