sabotloader

jascoesens

Have tried the Gold Dots in an MMP HPH-3p EZ Load sabot? They are the same as a low drag except black... or have you tried a "crush rib" they are even thinner yet?

corey012778

cory where did ya get that bulk from. xtp's right know are my goto bullets.

I am using tc cheap shots, which are 240gr and matched with tc magexpress sabots, can get them for atmost $10, another bullet I mainly sight with is the tc sure fires, it is 230gr bullet it is about the same price. I use the powerbelt rule with most of the bullets I use, don't push them hard.

the surefires are 90grs of pyro rs (left) and cheapshot are 85gr of pyro p (right) shot at 50yrds into a sand bucket.




thought I add some work I have done.

gleason.chapman

James,
I just got the Cabelas shooting catalog, and the TC SW went up to $26.99 for 30, the Hornady SST with low drag are now $13 for 15, so the SST/SWare about the $1/bullet of Barnes or Nosler. They use to be about.50 each.Good choice in 300g, 250 is OK for deer, but 300 holds together better.
Chap Gleason

gleason.chapman

Corey,
In my opinion these bullets are too pancaked out, meaning they are being shot too hard with high velocity, much better to drop your charge 10 to 20 grains. Look at the Gold Dot 300g that Semisane showed on page 2 of this thread, man they were a thing of beauty.Your bulletslike they are soft enough to wrap around the core and keep going, but really what that means is the bullet is spending all it energy wrapping the bullet not driving flesh, bone and blood vessels out. This is of course an "art", but if you do some reading about bullet design, they design bullets in their velocity range to have long shanks and expanded head (Swift Scarraco, Nosler Partition, A-Frame, etc). If you compare the XTP to the Gold Dot head to head you will see the GD are better, because they cost about the same, $20 for 50 and they do not fragment or pancake. The XTPs will loose their jacket, now you undoubly will have a dead deer, but you will not get shoot thru with the XTP 250, with the GD you will. Now I like the XTP Mag, same cost, but tougher jacket, higher velocity range. I have shot them and I have taken deer with them, they are very good for a low cost bullet.

</true confessions>
I use to have a "low cost" attitude about bullets when I first started MLing, basically "any bullet will do". I believe that is true for bow shots behind the shoulder on broadside deer, but then you start talking about penetration, no fragmentation, shoot thru and expansion you quickly must go to a bonded or premiuum bullet to get that kind of performance. I now believe only a bonded bullet or premiuum bullet should be used for hunting, because it has to do with game killing ability, and you want a bullet that kills game quickly and efficiently at any angle that the shot presents itself, i.e. quartering to you front shoulder shot, or straight on brisket shots. For the bone shotsthe premiuum or bonded bullets give much better penetration into the vitals, and if your hunting thick cover like we do in VA, then you may only get a quarting to you shot.

I base this change of attitude on this scripture verse:

Proverbs 12:10 (Whole Chapter)
A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.

So I have to regard the life of the beast that I hunt (the Bible says that "God gave them over to their hand, over and over, so where do we get our hunting ability?"), and shootthe beast that God give over tomy handso it does not suffer (quick death, no lingering death from poor hits), that is what "have regardth the life" means,otherwise my actions are cruel and I am a wicked man. An yes, I have had deer get away in the past from lack of penetration on good broadside shot (150g, 30 yards with 295g PB hollowpoint), but I have learned to shoot premiuum bullets, and that has made a huge difference. Premiuum is not high cost, premiuum is bonded or well constructed (Nosler with H, Barnes with all copper), does not fragment, expands beautifully in soild, long shanks (like Semi's 300g pictures), excellent accuracy. That is what premiuum means to me.


Hope that helps someboday along the way, buying your gun in not your most important MLing decision, buying your bullet is your single most important ML decision/choice, "choose well Grasshopper".
</end true confessions>

Respectfully submitted in year of our Lord 7/4/08,
Chap Gleason

alleyyooper

I am a reformed Nosler fan. Tired of buying 50 bullets at the price double other very good bullets I started experminting.
In my 50 Cals I like the 250gr. t0 300gr. Speer Gold dots in MMP sabots. In the 54 I use the50 cal 300gr. hollow pointSpeer Gold Dots in MMP purple sabots. I also think a person couldn't go wrong with those XTP's which have killed hundreds of deer since sabots were first interduced. But if your made of money and it grows ont the trees around your property do go with the Nosler partitons.

Al

gleason.chapman

I have about 40 Noslers left myself, and I have about 4 boxes of 50 of the 300g Gold Dots. I will let my son shoot the Noslersup this year in his Knight LRH, I will switch to the GD. I plan on shooting the Gold Dots in my Omega, but in my Savage I plan on staying with a Barnes Origonal or a Barnes 45843 TSX Flat nose. I hear ya, I am falling off that Nosler wagon myself based on education of this board---SL shooting Gold Dots, Semisane pictures of Gold Dot performance. Lee Lemoye liking the Gold Dots and having good results with them, I cango on and on withnames that have cemented my attitude toward GD. I have heard no problems with the Gold Dots, we are all in the process of learning.I do believe the very best bullet on the market today based on COST and PERFORMANCE is the Speer GD, however if you forget cost and want to just go performance. Then Nosler Partition and Barnes are the go to bullets. I can't argue your utility metric of cost and performance, since that is your personal choice set. If another person's personal choice set is performance only, then they will go with the best. Some argue that that they have a 45K truck a 150K land and cabin a 1200 scope/gun combo, what the heck is a $1 bullet? For those folk who only argue performance go with Barnes MZ, TMZ or 45843 TSX 300g Flat Nose. So it depends on your choise set. if your choice set is cost only then you will go with XTPs since they are a bit less than the GD. So it is "your choice utility function" in economics. In my pervious post I said my choice set of variables was

performance and morality

I tried to tie morality into the decision, because I believe it to be important, because God says it is. He calls folks wicked if they are cruel to a beast. I don't want to be cruel to a beast in killing it.
So allyyooper your chose utility function is cost and performance. Other folks have other choise utility functions. Now we are gettin' "high fallutin".
Happy 4th and my God bless you and your family and your hunting,
Chap

jascoesens

Re Hornady Low Drag SSTs, check this out>
http://www.grafs.com/fc/browse.php?q...=az&p=3419


Also, regarding sabots thickness ( or more properly, "Ease of Loading"). In my CVA Wolf, I have foung the MMP 3-petal sabot to be considerably easier to load than the Harvester crush-ribs.

James

lemoyne

Chap, I have trouble seeing the need for those specalized copper bullets on deer all my deer since I started using Gold Dots have been bang Flops, how do you improve on that? But I also believe they do have there place on very large and heavy animals they are the best. Lee

TNHagies

I have a question:

If you have hunted for let's say 10 years w/someting other than a GD, Barnesor Nosler and have always got pass throughs, never lost a deer and never had deer travel more than 50 yards after the shot, why would you change? Clearly it's working. In my mind that person is going to have complete confidence in that bullet and if they change bullets mid-game is going to cause a loss in confidence.

I like the GD and the Noslers. (No one in my hunting group has ever killed anything w/a Barnes so I can't speak first hand on their performace) But I guess my point is that you don't HAVE TO shoot them to kill deer and kill them quickly and ethically. Yes they preform very well but they are not the be-all end-all of bullets. If what you're saying is true that hunters and not being ethical by using bullets other than the 3 listed above then why is everyone OK with people using round balls?

coryj

cory
I buy the xtp mags in bulk at gordonsville sporting goods. $12.99/50.