American Pioneer Powder & Knight Rifles
03-13-2008, 06:24 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: American Pioneer Powder & Knight Rifles
ORIGINAL: gleason.chapman
Now here is the one for 777. Chap
ORIGINAL: gleason.chapman
And here is the one for real BP. Chap
That charts that Bryce Towsley published in American hunter showed APP and JSG sticks has lowest velocity of any of the powders and highest standard deviation. Here is one of the charts.
Chap
ORIGINAL: cayugad
I have been thinking of different loads to try out of the new Extreme with the MHC fluted barrel. I noticed at the little gun shop they had American Pioneer Sticks and JSG Sticks. I just wondered if anyone has ever shot them out of their Knight rifles. If so, what kind of results did you have and what bullet were you shooting. They also had Triple Se7en pellets so I could go that route..
I have been thinking of different loads to try out of the new Extreme with the MHC fluted barrel. I noticed at the little gun shop they had American Pioneer Sticks and JSG Sticks. I just wondered if anyone has ever shot them out of their Knight rifles. If so, what kind of results did you have and what bullet were you shooting. They also had Triple Se7en pellets so I could go that route..
That charts that Bryce Towsley published in American hunter showed APP and JSG sticks has lowest velocity of any of the powders and highest standard deviation. Here is one of the charts.
Chap
03-13-2008, 07:45 PM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: American Pioneer Powder & Knight Rifles
ORIGINAL: cayugad
Thanks Chap.. maybe I will get some of the Triple Se7en pellets to play with instead of the APP.
Thanks Chap.. maybe I will get some of the Triple Se7en pellets to play with instead of the APP.
Also that new Black Horn powder is suppose to be more powerful than 777, that should get you to 200 yards.
In my opinion, it is not so much powder that get you good numbers, but ballistic coefficient. If you shoot a Barnes Origonal 300g, which has a ballistic Coefficient of .291 and sight it in for 150 yards (or 1/2 high at 75 yards), here is your bullet drop over the first 200 yards. Pretty impressive with a Barnes Origonal in a .452 Crushed Rib sabot---several Savage shooters are turning now to that combo, since it is accurate, deadly and look at those flat numbers out to 225!! You could also try an MMP Orange Sabot or a 3 petal ez frm mmp, even though they are made for .452 bullets they will shoot a .458 bullet, and they may be the perfect combo for your gun.
Chap
Updated the graphic based on 2000 fps MV.
03-13-2008, 08:20 PM
#14
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 6,921
RE: American Pioneer Powder & Knight Rifles
ORIGINAL: cayugad
I would just once from all my "magnum" rifles like to find one that would shoot an actual magnum load. They constantly push on advertizments about the ability of their rifles to shoot magnum loads, yet with all my inlines I do not shoot a "magnum load." The closest I come is in my Knight Disc as I will shoot 120 grains of loose powder in that and that same amount in one of my fast twist GMB's.
Then I want to go to the hay field and really see what a "magnum" VS a standard rifle will do..
I would just once from all my "magnum" rifles like to find one that would shoot an actual magnum load. They constantly push on advertizments about the ability of their rifles to shoot magnum loads, yet with all my inlines I do not shoot a "magnum load." The closest I come is in my Knight Disc as I will shoot 120 grains of loose powder in that and that same amount in one of my fast twist GMB's.
Then I want to go to the hay field and really see what a "magnum" VS a standard rifle will do..
.I must ask why pellets??? Just curious asI have found loose to be more consistent. I weigh my powder which helps to eek out every inch ofconsistency but in honesty my groups from volume vs weighed wouldn't matter on a deer sized target. Just appeals to my anal side
.I am not sure what you normally hunt or shoot in regards to distance but I can tell you from my experience its not the charge or MV that matters its knowing your gun/load/abilities and limitations. 200 yards is very doable with 100 gr of powder, just have to know how to compensate for the ballistical portions of each projectile to keep it in the ring. Practice is the only way and very important to shooting longer range is not practicing on picture perfect days. I shoot in every condition I expect to see in the field. Wind direction, speed, humidity, etc are important to note and see what happens with your POI. I am getting experience or knowledge but this is also where I put down my limitations. If the conditions aren't favorable I don't shoot.I practice at ranges much further then I'd ever shoot in the field, i find it makes me better at the "real hunting" ranges and learn more about myequipment and in terms of projectiles be it a bullet or arrow their trajectory curve. Honesty tomyself in abilities and equipment potentialplus utmost respect to the game defines where I put my upper limit at.
I must say I feel uncomfortable postingthisas your experience and knowledge far eclipses mine in regards to muzzleloaders. Can't help but wonder what I'm missing or not accounting for???[&o] So, please take this asmerely thoughts from a longer range shooter and nothing more.
Once again good luck. If you want magnum plus MV'scouldalways add a Savage to your collection. LOL
03-13-2008, 09:23 PM
#16
Dominant Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: American Pioneer Powder & Knight Rifles
ORIGINAL: skeeter 7MM
I haven't found one either. Best of luck hope you succeed.
I must ask why pellets??? Just curious asI have found loose to be more consistent. I weigh my powder which helps to eek out every inch ofconsistency but in honesty my groups from volume vs weighed wouldn't matter on a deer sized target. Just appeals to my anal side.
I am not sure what you normally hunt or shoot in regards to distance but I can tell you from my experience its not the charge or MV that matters its knowing your gun/load/abilities and limitations. 200 yards is very doable with 100 gr of powder, just have to know how to compensate for the ballistical portions of each projectile to keep it in the ring. Practice is the only way and very important to shooting longer range is not practicing on picture perfect days. I shoot in every condition I expect to see in the field. Wind direction, speed, humidity, etc are important to note and see what happens with your POI. I am getting experience or knowledge but this is also where I put down my limitations. If the conditions aren't favorable I don't shoot.I practice at ranges much further then I'd ever shoot in the field, i find it makes me better at the "real hunting" ranges and learn more about myequipment and in terms of projectiles be it a bullet or arrow their trajectory curve. Honesty tomyself in abilities and equipment potentialplus utmost respect to the game defines where I put my upper limit at.
I must say I feel uncomfortable postingthisas your experience and knowledge far eclipses mine in regards to muzzleloaders. Can't help but wonder what I'm missing or not accounting for???[&o] So, please take this asmerely thoughts from a longer range shooter and nothing more.
Once again good luck. If you want magnum plus MV'scouldalways add a Savage to your collection. LOL
ORIGINAL: cayugad
I would just once from all my "magnum" rifles like to find one that would shoot an actual magnum load. They constantly push on advertizments about the ability of their rifles to shoot magnum loads, yet with all my inlines I do not shoot a "magnum load." The closest I come is in my Knight Disc as I will shoot 120 grains of loose powder in that and that same amount in one of my fast twist GMB's.
Then I want to go to the hay field and really see what a "magnum" VS a standard rifle will do..
I would just once from all my "magnum" rifles like to find one that would shoot an actual magnum load. They constantly push on advertizments about the ability of their rifles to shoot magnum loads, yet with all my inlines I do not shoot a "magnum load." The closest I come is in my Knight Disc as I will shoot 120 grains of loose powder in that and that same amount in one of my fast twist GMB's.
Then I want to go to the hay field and really see what a "magnum" VS a standard rifle will do..
.I must ask why pellets??? Just curious asI have found loose to be more consistent. I weigh my powder which helps to eek out every inch ofconsistency but in honesty my groups from volume vs weighed wouldn't matter on a deer sized target. Just appeals to my anal side
.I am not sure what you normally hunt or shoot in regards to distance but I can tell you from my experience its not the charge or MV that matters its knowing your gun/load/abilities and limitations. 200 yards is very doable with 100 gr of powder, just have to know how to compensate for the ballistical portions of each projectile to keep it in the ring. Practice is the only way and very important to shooting longer range is not practicing on picture perfect days. I shoot in every condition I expect to see in the field. Wind direction, speed, humidity, etc are important to note and see what happens with your POI. I am getting experience or knowledge but this is also where I put down my limitations. If the conditions aren't favorable I don't shoot.I practice at ranges much further then I'd ever shoot in the field, i find it makes me better at the "real hunting" ranges and learn more about myequipment and in terms of projectiles be it a bullet or arrow their trajectory curve. Honesty tomyself in abilities and equipment potentialplus utmost respect to the game defines where I put my upper limit at.
I must say I feel uncomfortable postingthisas your experience and knowledge far eclipses mine in regards to muzzleloaders. Can't help but wonder what I'm missing or not accounting for???[&o] So, please take this asmerely thoughts from a longer range shooter and nothing more.
Once again good luck. If you want magnum plus MV'scouldalways add a Savage to your collection. LOL
03-13-2008, 10:28 PM
#17
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 6,921
RE: American Pioneer Powder & Knight Rifles
ORIGINAL: Semisane
Say Chap, that chart is showing a 3,000 fps muzzle velocity.
Say Chap, that chart is showing a 3,000 fps muzzle velocity.
Yards Path Velocity
MV-1.5" 2000 fps
25 0.3"1936fps
50 1.6" 1873fps
75 2.2" 1811fps
100 2.2" 1751fps
125 1.5" 1693fps
200 -5.5 1526fps
225 -9.6 1474fps
250 -14.7 1424fps
275 -20.9 1376fps
300 -28.2 1331fps
(sorry tried to get a screenshot but couldn't get it to work properly[:@])
Understandable, look forward to seeingand hearing theresults. Best of luck
03-14-2008, 04:18 AM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: American Pioneer Powder & Knight Rifles
ORIGINAL: Semisane
Say Chap, that chart is showing a 3,000 fps muzzle velocity.
Say Chap, that chart is showing a 3,000 fps muzzle velocity.
03-14-2008, 04:27 AM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: American Pioneer Powder & Knight Rifles
ORIGINAL: skeeter 7MM
Using Chapsnumbers ran the same projectile with 2000fps MV (this is from a web based calc.,not at my computer to run it through my ballistics program, but its pretty close whenI punched some loads from my log)
Yards Path Velocity
MV-1.5" 2000 fps
25 0.3"1936fps
50 1.6" 1873fps
75 2.2" 1811fps
100 2.2" 1751fps
125 1.5" 1693fps
200 -5.5 1526fps
225 -9.6 1474fps
250 -14.7 1424fps
275 -20.9 1376fps
300 -28.2 1331fps
(sorry tried to get a screenshot but couldn't get it to work properly[:@])
Understandable, look forward to seeingand hearing theresults. Best of luck
ORIGINAL: Semisane
Say Chap, that chart is showing a 3,000 fps muzzle velocity.
Say Chap, that chart is showing a 3,000 fps muzzle velocity.
Yards Path Velocity
MV-1.5" 2000 fps
25 0.3"1936fps
50 1.6" 1873fps
75 2.2" 1811fps
100 2.2" 1751fps
125 1.5" 1693fps
200 -5.5 1526fps
225 -9.6 1474fps
250 -14.7 1424fps
275 -20.9 1376fps
300 -28.2 1331fps
(sorry tried to get a screenshot but couldn't get it to work properly[:@])
Understandable, look forward to seeingand hearing theresults. Best of luck
03-14-2008, 04:38 AM
#20
Spike
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 45
RE: American Pioneer Powder & Knight Rifles
I have 2 long range hunters and have experiemented with different loads and powders. If you want to push the distance then what i have found to work the best is 777 loose, about 110 grains with a 280 grain harvester scorpion in a crushed rib sabot. I have tried the pellets and there is to many variables. Whether the pellet crushes or not, i always got a flyer with pellets..you just never know when its coming. I own 5 different knights and wouldnt trade them for anything. let me know how things work out..i read this forum alot but dont post much..
Thanks
Jarrett
Thanks
Jarrett