Why blackpowder doesn't shoot as fast as a rifle?
01-30-2008, 04:10 PM
#21
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 5,180
RE: Why blackpowder doesn't shoot as fast as a rifle?
I was just curious to if it could handle the mistake. We've all seen people double load thier muzzleloaders and after they picked themselves up off the ground, told us about what happened. Double loaded, 2 powder charges and 2 bullets. Be interesting to see what it would do.
Haha Im sure toby bridges could answer that. But i think he said his was due to poor breech plug design at the time.
Haha Im sure toby bridges could answer that. But i think he said his was due to poor breech plug design at the time.
01-30-2008, 05:57 PM
#22
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,081
RE: Why blackpowder doesn't shoot as fast as a rifle?
FG,
I'm not sure what would happen if you had a charge then a bullet then a charge then a bullet and shot it but most any muzzleloader should be able to handle one charge and 2 bullets (when properly seated). I know my CVA Bobcat can from proof testing I've done on it. Even the original guns that were proofed typically used twice the powder and twice the projectiles as a proof load.
I've not heard that Savage proofs every gun to 129,000psi and I would be shocked if they did. That pressure is approaching the yield strength of the steel so I'm not sure I would purchase a gun that was subjected to near failure pressures as it may have been compromised in the process.The only test I've heard of that mentions that figure was done on a section of Savagebarrel that was capped at both ends and set off like a pipe bomb. The barrel peice survived and all the pressure was vented through the ignition hole. Definately shows the steel is strong but I still wouldn't buy a gun that was put to that test.
As for the blown Savage, the picture I saw had a place on the inside of the barrel that made me think there was an obstruction at that point. It was near where the barrel appeared to rupture and was not where the bullet should have been but several inches forward of that location. To me it looked like the bullet was short started. Just my opinion but that would explain the results better than a breach plug failure.
I'm not sure what would happen if you had a charge then a bullet then a charge then a bullet and shot it but most any muzzleloader should be able to handle one charge and 2 bullets (when properly seated). I know my CVA Bobcat can from proof testing I've done on it. Even the original guns that were proofed typically used twice the powder and twice the projectiles as a proof load.
I've not heard that Savage proofs every gun to 129,000psi and I would be shocked if they did. That pressure is approaching the yield strength of the steel so I'm not sure I would purchase a gun that was subjected to near failure pressures as it may have been compromised in the process.The only test I've heard of that mentions that figure was done on a section of Savagebarrel that was capped at both ends and set off like a pipe bomb. The barrel peice survived and all the pressure was vented through the ignition hole. Definately shows the steel is strong but I still wouldn't buy a gun that was put to that test.
As for the blown Savage, the picture I saw had a place on the inside of the barrel that made me think there was an obstruction at that point. It was near where the barrel appeared to rupture and was not where the bullet should have been but several inches forward of that location. To me it looked like the bullet was short started. Just my opinion but that would explain the results better than a breach plug failure.
01-30-2008, 06:05 PM
#23
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 828
RE: Why blackpowder doesn't shoot as fast as a rifle?
ORIGINAL: frontier gander
I was just curious to if it could handle the mistake. We've all seen people double load thier muzzleloaders and after they picked themselves up off the ground, told us about what happened. Double loaded, 2 powder charges and 2 bullets. Be interesting to see what it would do.
Haha Im sure toby bridges could answer that. But i think he said his was due to poor breech plug design at the time.
I was just curious to if it could handle the mistake. We've all seen people double load thier muzzleloaders and after they picked themselves up off the ground, told us about what happened. Double loaded, 2 powder charges and 2 bullets. Be interesting to see what it would do.
Haha Im sure toby bridges could answer that. But i think he said his was due to poor breech plug design at the time.
Savage claims an intentionally rigged double load.
01-30-2008, 06:31 PM
#24
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 828
RE: Why blackpowder doesn't shoot as fast as a rifle?
I've not heard that Savage proofs every gun to 129,000psi and I would be shocked if they did. That pressure is approaching the yield strength of the steel so I'm not sure I would purchase a gun that was subjected to near failure pressures as it may have been compromised in the process.The only test I've heard of that mentions that figure was done on a section of Savage barrel that was capped at both ends and set off like a pipe bomb. The barrel peice survived and all the pressure was vented through the ignition hole. Definately shows the steel is strong but I still wouldn't buy a gun that was put to that test.
You caught my mistake. Yep, Savage does proof test each barrel, but it's not specified how much. They have tested the gun upwards of 129,000 psi, however So not every gun was put through 100k+ of pressure. Sorry, I did say Savage proofs each gun to 129,000 psi, that's not true: [&o] http://www.randywakeman.com/ballltd45.htm
