Realistic Range
01-04-2008, 05:39 AM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Realistic Range
ORIGINAL: little-d
anything over 100 yds and i got to have a little help from up above, anything closer than 20 yards has a good chance of getting away. a good rifle will hold true out to a 120 yds with a small charge after that it drops fast. a hot charge and a matched load with a scope (or peep site)set for the drop will kill alot further than most of us can imagine. in the end it don't realy matter what you got in yours hands but what your hands can do with the rifle.
anything over 100 yds and i got to have a little help from up above, anything closer than 20 yards has a good chance of getting away. a good rifle will hold true out to a 120 yds with a small charge after that it drops fast. a hot charge and a matched load with a scope (or peep site)set for the drop will kill alot further than most of us can imagine. in the end it don't realy matter what you got in yours hands but what your hands can do with the rifle.
01-04-2008, 06:12 AM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Renfrew County, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,392
RE: Realistic Range
If all the stars aligned and everything was perfect. There is still plenty of energy at 300 yds to do a deer with chapmans load.
However, 300 yd is a longgggggggggg ways out there for a bullet that takes better than 1/2a second to get there.
P.S. That is my moose load.
However, 300 yd is a longgggggggggg ways out there for a bullet that takes better than 1/2a second to get there.
P.S. That is my moose load.
01-04-2008, 08:20 AM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,482
RE: Realistic Range
There's obviously a lot of variables that can affect this. A lot of it boils down to - What is an ethical shot?
Civil War snipers often made kills with .45 cal Whitworths or even Springfield muzzleloaders at 800 - 1000 yards. So a muzzleloader can certainly kill a deer at extreme ranges, but that doesn't make it ethical to shoot that far. Those snipers also missed and wounded soldiers probably far more often than they hit at those extreme ranges.
I would say that a modern muzzleloader with a scope in the hands of a good shot (another important factor) will often have an effective, ethical range of 150 - 200 yards. My ML is sighted in to be dead-on at 100 yards, and drops about 5 inches at 150. I would take a shot out to 150, but would prefer 100 yards or closer. I know of some who can routinely make hits at 200, and would never say anything bad about someone who shoots that far, but practices at that range and knows what their gun will do.
Past 200 yards, there aren't many loads that will retain enough energy and trajectory to make ethical shots, in my opinion.
Civil War snipers often made kills with .45 cal Whitworths or even Springfield muzzleloaders at 800 - 1000 yards. So a muzzleloader can certainly kill a deer at extreme ranges, but that doesn't make it ethical to shoot that far. Those snipers also missed and wounded soldiers probably far more often than they hit at those extreme ranges.
I would say that a modern muzzleloader with a scope in the hands of a good shot (another important factor) will often have an effective, ethical range of 150 - 200 yards. My ML is sighted in to be dead-on at 100 yards, and drops about 5 inches at 150. I would take a shot out to 150, but would prefer 100 yards or closer. I know of some who can routinely make hits at 200, and would never say anything bad about someone who shoots that far, but practices at that range and knows what their gun will do.
Past 200 yards, there aren't many loads that will retain enough energy and trajectory to make ethical shots, in my opinion.
01-04-2008, 08:21 AM
#14
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
Posts: 6,270
RE: Realistic Range
"How far can I reach out and touch a deer under these IDEAL CONDITIONS that will never happen."
The problem with long-range shooting with a black powder weapon is not accuracy, but knowing the trajectory intimately and being able to estimate ranges precisely - within +- 20 yards or less.
If you have a rangefinder, and have time to use it, the problem gets simplified some, but you still must zero your rifle in at a realistic distance, and then shoot it a lot at various distances to find out exactly how high/low your bullet is going to strike at that range. This shooting has to be done with your powder and bullet combination. Guessing and printed charts will just not do it!
The problem with long-range shooting with a black powder weapon is not accuracy, but knowing the trajectory intimately and being able to estimate ranges precisely - within +- 20 yards or less.
If you have a rangefinder, and have time to use it, the problem gets simplified some, but you still must zero your rifle in at a realistic distance, and then shoot it a lot at various distances to find out exactly how high/low your bullet is going to strike at that range. This shooting has to be done with your powder and bullet combination. Guessing and printed charts will just not do it!
01-04-2008, 08:52 AM
#15
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 771
RE: Realistic Range
With the right load, stout powder charge that still is accurate, lots of practice and I would say 10-14x optics 200-300 yards would be possible. Perhaps longer.
A friend of mine is shooting an Encore .50, topped with a Leupold VX-III 4.5-14x50mm setup with the ballistic reticle and his load iswith 125gr 777 2FG and a Hornady SST 250gr projectile. His max range is 300 yards and he has effectively and routinely harvested deer at 200 to 300 yards. He is sighted zero at 200 yards and practices a great deal shooting at these ranges. Hisaverage shot opportunityis really 200 yards with the longest at 300as he is hunting 10 acres of woods that is across an open corn field. The deer are almost never standing around closer or if they are they are already running at top speed so a shot is not possible. He also carries in his blind, the exact same setup only with a 3x-9x VXII for everything under say 150 yards, which is a rare occasion. He has only harvestedtwo deer in the past four years under 150 yards.
What you will find if you routinely wish to shoot atextended rangesis you need either to sight in at around 200-250 yards or have a quality drop compensating reticle scope and higher maginification and a bunch of regular shooting practicein my view.
I have targeted out to 300 yards with a couple of my inlines (from my friend's blind)with actually pretty good accuracy from a bench, but I only have 9x optics so really it's very difficult for meto shoot with any real precision.
M2C
A friend of mine is shooting an Encore .50, topped with a Leupold VX-III 4.5-14x50mm setup with the ballistic reticle and his load iswith 125gr 777 2FG and a Hornady SST 250gr projectile. His max range is 300 yards and he has effectively and routinely harvested deer at 200 to 300 yards. He is sighted zero at 200 yards and practices a great deal shooting at these ranges. Hisaverage shot opportunityis really 200 yards with the longest at 300as he is hunting 10 acres of woods that is across an open corn field. The deer are almost never standing around closer or if they are they are already running at top speed so a shot is not possible. He also carries in his blind, the exact same setup only with a 3x-9x VXII for everything under say 150 yards, which is a rare occasion. He has only harvestedtwo deer in the past four years under 150 yards.
What you will find if you routinely wish to shoot atextended rangesis you need either to sight in at around 200-250 yards or have a quality drop compensating reticle scope and higher maginification and a bunch of regular shooting practicein my view.
I have targeted out to 300 yards with a couple of my inlines (from my friend's blind)with actually pretty good accuracy from a bench, but I only have 9x optics so really it's very difficult for meto shoot with any real precision.
M2C
01-04-2008, 05:35 PM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Realistic Range
ORIGINAL: HuntAway
If all the stars aligned and everything was perfect. There is still plenty of energy at 300 yds to do a deer with chapmans load.
However, 300 yd is a longgggggggggg ways out there for a bullet that takes better than 1/2a second to get there.
P.S. That is my moose load.
If all the stars aligned and everything was perfect. There is still plenty of energy at 300 yds to do a deer with chapmans load.
However, 300 yd is a longgggggggggg ways out there for a bullet that takes better than 1/2a second to get there.
P.S. That is my moose load.
http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=Savage&action=display&thre ad=1198274725
so it is possible, IF YOU KNOW YOUR GUN, YOUR LOAD, YOU PRACTICE to 300 and YOUR an excellent marksman. Some can shoot up to 150 with no problems, with their 100 yard sighed in guns. Anything over 150 is a lot of practice and knowledge of bullet, load and excellent conditions. I am NOT recommending people shoot that far, I am only pointing out that I have seen evidence of folks shooting that far and had excellent results AGAIN with the right load. Chap
01-05-2008, 07:08 AM
#20
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 552
RE: Realistic Range
ORIGINAL: frontier gander
Smokeless muzzleloader VS Black Powder muzzleloader is an entire different ball game.
Smokeless muzzleloader VS Black Powder muzzleloader is an entire different ball game.
Amen! Depends on lots of different variables among gun & shooter.