Zugunruhe

Anyone ever tried these:

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm

They look interesting, and the price is right. Cheaper than a lot of brand name pistol bullets.

Bullet it is a .44 cal. 325 gr. long flatnose design with smooth sides designed to be shot out of the MMP/Knight green high pressure sabots. BC is a respectible .231 and they are available in .429/.430/.431 diameters.

At $15.25 for 50, I might add them to my bullet tests for 2008. Speaking of which, does anyone have a preference for one bullet diameter over another when it comes to .44's?

LaneNebraska

You must order them “As Cast”, and “Not Heat Treated” so they will be softer for some expansion.

rem 700

'Bout the best cast bullets you can order. Diameter preference is just what your rifle shoots well...tight fitting, easy loading, or in between?

Indiana SmokePole

Zugunruhe

If you want to shoot cast bullets the Bull Shop custom Cast Bullets are the best as far as Quality and price any were Dan makes a great Cast bullet If you know your exact bore diam. he will custom cast the bullets to your bore. I shoot the Bullshops in my KRB , the bore in my krb is .503.5 so I shoot a .504 size conical and at 100yds they will shoot just about one ragged hole. I bought 800 from bullshop and with shipping they came to 226.00 I think 50 would run you 14.95 + shipping need to check them out If you are wanting to shoot them out of a sabot he will cast them for that also.

www.bullshop.gunloads.com

gleason.chapman

Ii have not shot them, but in this MLer penetration test the cast bullets penetrated the best (61" into Clay):

http://www.snipersparadise.com/tsmag/July03/TSD%20Wound%20Chart-MZ.xls

In the book Rifle Bullets for the Hunter, there is a whole chapter on Cast bullets, my conclusion from reading the chapter is that that are excellent with a FLAT nose at standard ML ranges and velocities. They are also what the folks use for really big game in Africa---solids. Bad thing about them, little expansion, so no large wound channel, but the flat nose causes a large splash. I recall reading that Bryce Towsley, who wrote the MLer chapter of that book, liked the Sierra Flat Nose, have not tried those either.
Chap

Zugunruhe

Chap,

That is an interesting article- I've been trying to find again it since the first time you posted it! It got me started looking into articles on hardcast handgun bullets and hunting with them. When it comes to muzzleloading projectiles, I think there is more similarity to large caliber handgun hunting than there is to centerfire rifles. Look at both muzzle and impact velocities, there is a lot of similarity with common ML loads. Granted, when you start bumping up charges you're in the realm of 30-30 centerfire performance so there is some hybridization that must be taken into consideration.

That being said, the most effective handgun hunting loads feature a large meplat (frontal diameter) flat nose and steep shoulders, they also happen to be hardcast lead. You are correct that they do not expand much, but the wide flat nose causes a "splash" which translates to shock and a ragged temporary wound channel. Lots of very in depth writing out there on that subject- the guys that hunt with the .454, .460, and .500 are pretty serious about their game.

Reading up on the subject is one of the reasons why I want to get a good load worked up with that .44/270gr. Gold Dot flat nose soft point. It may be the best of both worlds...

gleason.chapman

Exactly right, velocities around 1200 to 1600 fps are hand gun speed and once you get to about 1800 or 2000 that is 30-30 speed, and in fact I tell people that the modern ML is basically a single shot 30-30 from a ballistics POV. I believe the ML bullets are better than the old round nose 30-30, because they make some pretty effective ML bullets now--Barnes TMZ, MZ, Nosler Partiton, etc.

From a COST, performance, penetration POV I agree 100% with you on the large frontal area cast bullets. Ignoring >>cost<<, I believe the Barnes does it all at all distances, with good expansion, excellent penetrationand pass thru. If your gonna go non-cast and you want the cheapest best commercial bullet available, then in my mind that is the Gold Dot, no doubt because of it's cost ($16 for 50), bonded, so it stays together, shoots thru becusse the weight and large frontal area gives they big splash. I am still learning a lot about these things also...my journey has been.......

Knight 240g all lead in Knight Sabot in knight Disc for 1st year I hunted--didn't know squat about ML bullets

Then PowerBelt 295 for 3 years in Knight Disc and TC Omega, didn't know squat about ML bullets, my brother got me into PB because they load easy.

Then Nosler Partition for 3 years in Omega---got educated on bullets...

Then Parker Ballistic Extreme in Savage 10ML shooting smokeless, this year. Got more education on bullets......

I love the Parker's accuracy, don't like the fragmentation on bone and it is great on "bow shots" into the vitals....jello... Excellent expansion because of bullet design (some liquid in the center to cause expansion).

Best Wishes on your Bullet Education Journey,
Chap