Anyone use American Pioneer powder?
11-13-2007, 04:57 AM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Posts: 3,246
RE: Anyone use American Pioneer powder?
ORIGINAL: cayugad
That is an interesting chart... I had never seen that before. As for the clumping, I have had it clump. I then shook it and broke the clumps up. Another complaint is the FFg is so course, it is hard to even pour through the powder measure. But it does work well with a lot of rifles and combinations.
That is an interesting chart... I had never seen that before. As for the clumping, I have had it clump. I then shook it and broke the clumps up. Another complaint is the FFg is so course, it is hard to even pour through the powder measure. But it does work well with a lot of rifles and combinations.
11-13-2007, 05:08 AM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
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RE: Anyone use American Pioneer powder?
ORIGINAL: Semisane
I have chronographed JSG. Using 300 grain Gold Dots and Harvester regular short sabots, with100 grains JSG FFG I got 1264 fps average for a 5-shot string,with 120 grains - 1381 fps, with140 grains -1388 fps.Pretty low. But it is clean burning and gives me pretty good groups.
With the same bullet/sabot combination and 100 grains of powder, I can over 1700 fps with T-7 FFG and over 1500 fps with Pyrodex RS.
I have chronographed JSG. Using 300 grain Gold Dots and Harvester regular short sabots, with100 grains JSG FFG I got 1264 fps average for a 5-shot string,with 120 grains - 1381 fps, with140 grains -1388 fps.Pretty low. But it is clean burning and gives me pretty good groups.
With the same bullet/sabot combination and 100 grains of powder, I can over 1700 fps with T-7 FFG and over 1500 fps with Pyrodex RS.
bc=.199 (Nosler partition 300g)
mv=1264
sight in 100 yards
-10.1" low at 150 yards and the enery of the 300g bullet is 679, I am sure it would punch a hole ina deer broadsidebut not go thru. Same thing but with 1700 fps is -5.7" low at 150 yards, energy is 1044. So if your shooting JSG at 100g, limit shots to <100 yards is what the ballistic figures say.
Chap
11-13-2007, 06:53 AM
#13
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,410
RE: Anyone use American Pioneer powder?
"< 75 yard shooting I think your fine with JSG or APP, long range shooting to 150 yards forget it, bullet will drop off the table at 125 I believe."
Last Feb. i shot a hog at a measured distance of 192 yards with 90 grains of FFG JSG and a 250 grain SST bullet in thered four petal sabot. My Encore is sighted 3" high at 100 yards and iheld about 12"-15" over the hogs back. That hog fell, flopped a few minutes and expired.That bullet and sabot combination is very hard to get down the barrel of my Encore.I also shot abuck deer at 160 Army paces with the same load:Forgot to hold high and broke both front legs at the shoulder. A finishing shot was required.
AAP and JSG like really tight fitting sabots and likes to be tamped hard.i use a furniture knob with a hole in it to really get some pressure on the ramrod. You can feel the powder compress. i think that the added resistance and compression makes for more velocity. The Hornady Low Drag sabots load easily in my Encore but do not give the fine accuracy with JSG that the tight fitting ones do. They turnmy 1-1.5"groups into 2.5-3" groups at 100 yards.
My next can of JSG will be FFFG. May also give GOEX Pinnacle a try. There must be some chemical difference between APP, JSG and Pinnacle because in the NRA testsTowsley got much better velocity from Pinnacle.
Last Feb. i shot a hog at a measured distance of 192 yards with 90 grains of FFG JSG and a 250 grain SST bullet in thered four petal sabot. My Encore is sighted 3" high at 100 yards and iheld about 12"-15" over the hogs back. That hog fell, flopped a few minutes and expired.That bullet and sabot combination is very hard to get down the barrel of my Encore.I also shot abuck deer at 160 Army paces with the same load:Forgot to hold high and broke both front legs at the shoulder. A finishing shot was required.
AAP and JSG like really tight fitting sabots and likes to be tamped hard.i use a furniture knob with a hole in it to really get some pressure on the ramrod. You can feel the powder compress. i think that the added resistance and compression makes for more velocity. The Hornady Low Drag sabots load easily in my Encore but do not give the fine accuracy with JSG that the tight fitting ones do. They turnmy 1-1.5"groups into 2.5-3" groups at 100 yards.
My next can of JSG will be FFFG. May also give GOEX Pinnacle a try. There must be some chemical difference between APP, JSG and Pinnacle because in the NRA testsTowsley got much better velocity from Pinnacle.
11-13-2007, 07:26 AM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Anyone use American Pioneer powder?
ORIGINAL: falcon
"< 75 yard shooting I think your fine with JSG or APP, long range shooting to 150 yards forget it, bullet will drop off the table at 125 I believe."
Last Feb. i shot a hog at a measured distance of 192 yards with 90 grains of FFG JSG and a 250 grain SST bullet in thered four petal sabot. My Encore is sighted 3" high at 100 yards and iheld about 12"-15" over the hogs back. That hog fell, flopped a few minutes and expired.That bullet and sabot combination is very hard to get down the barrel of my Encore.I also shot abuck deer at 160 Army paces with the same load:Forgot to hold high and broke both front legs at the shoulder. A finishing shot was required.
AAP and JSG like really tight fitting sabots and likes to be tamped hard.i use a furniture knob with a hole in it to really get some pressure on the ramrod. You can feel the powder compress. i think that the added resistance and compression makes for more velocity. The Hornady Low Drag sabots load easily in my Encore but do not give the fine accuracy with JSG that the tight fitting ones do. They turnmy 1-1.5"groups into 2.5-3" groups at 100 yards.
My next can of JSG will be FFFG. May also give GOEX Pinnacle a try. There must be some chemical difference between APP, JSG and Pinnacle because in the NRA testsTowsley got much better velocity from Pinnacle.
"< 75 yard shooting I think your fine with JSG or APP, long range shooting to 150 yards forget it, bullet will drop off the table at 125 I believe."
Last Feb. i shot a hog at a measured distance of 192 yards with 90 grains of FFG JSG and a 250 grain SST bullet in thered four petal sabot. My Encore is sighted 3" high at 100 yards and iheld about 12"-15" over the hogs back. That hog fell, flopped a few minutes and expired.That bullet and sabot combination is very hard to get down the barrel of my Encore.I also shot abuck deer at 160 Army paces with the same load:Forgot to hold high and broke both front legs at the shoulder. A finishing shot was required.
AAP and JSG like really tight fitting sabots and likes to be tamped hard.i use a furniture knob with a hole in it to really get some pressure on the ramrod. You can feel the powder compress. i think that the added resistance and compression makes for more velocity. The Hornady Low Drag sabots load easily in my Encore but do not give the fine accuracy with JSG that the tight fitting ones do. They turnmy 1-1.5"groups into 2.5-3" groups at 100 yards.
My next can of JSG will be FFFG. May also give GOEX Pinnacle a try. There must be some chemical difference between APP, JSG and Pinnacle because in the NRA testsTowsley got much better velocity from Pinnacle.
I was talking about MPBR,your experience isreally really interesting on the compression of JSG and those long shots---your hold over is consistent with with the charts I ran -10.1" low at 150 is pretty close to your 160 yards took off front legs on the deer. I know in my Savage smokeless, you have to put your full weight onto the ram rod to compress smokeless and even then it can misfire, why I don't know. Even thought of putting 2 or 3gof BP in each load to "get it going", but didn't do that cause of the sulfur.
Chap
11-13-2007, 07:41 AM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: central Ky
Posts: 2,867
RE: Anyone use American Pioneer powder?
The american pioneer powder jim shockey select 3F is the ONLY powder I'll EVER use from now on. Totally non fouling,non corrsive,uniform,accurate,good velocities-what's not to love? We tested this powder side by side with black powder,777,and pyrodex and app came out easily on top!
11-13-2007, 07:53 AM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Anyone use American Pioneer powder?
ORIGINAL: stalkingbear
The american pioneer powder jim shockey select 3F is the ONLY powder I'll EVER use from now on. Totally non fouling,non corrsive,uniform,accurate,good velocities-what's not to love? We tested this powder side by side with black powder,777,and pyrodex and app came out easily on top!
The american pioneer powder jim shockey select 3F is the ONLY powder I'll EVER use from now on. Totally non fouling,non corrsive,uniform,accurate,good velocities-what's not to love? We tested this powder side by side with black powder,777,and pyrodex and app came out easily on top!
accuracy is #1,
then velocity,
then standard deviation,
then cleaning ease. And I would weight them 50% on accuracy
25% on velocity and 12.5% on the other 2, have each shooter score independently now showing each others score. Then add up your results and do a Non-Parametric 1 way Analysis of Variance. Then you have an objective experiment.
Chap
11-13-2007, 08:35 AM
#17
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,410
RE: Anyone use American Pioneer powder?
"know in my Savage smokeless, you have to put your full weight onto the ram rod to compress smokeless and even then it can misfire, why I don't know."
APP and JSG really have to be tightly packed. The old granular Clean Shot was the same way. The old round Clean Shot pellets were impossible to light reliably without a booster of five grains or so of granular.
APP and JSG really have to be tightly packed. The old granular Clean Shot was the same way. The old round Clean Shot pellets were impossible to light reliably without a booster of five grains or so of granular.
11-13-2007, 08:39 AM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Anyone use American Pioneer powder?
ORIGINAL: falcon
"know in my Savage smokeless, you have to put your full weight onto the ram rod to compress smokeless and even then it can misfire, why I don't know."
APP and JSG really have to be tightly packed. The old granular Clean Shot was the same way. The old round Clean Shot pellets were impossible to light reliably without a booster of five grains or so of granular.
"know in my Savage smokeless, you have to put your full weight onto the ram rod to compress smokeless and even then it can misfire, why I don't know."
APP and JSG really have to be tightly packed. The old granular Clean Shot was the same way. The old round Clean Shot pellets were impossible to light reliably without a booster of five grains or so of granular.
11-13-2007, 10:57 AM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: central Ky
Posts: 2,867
RE: Anyone use American Pioneer powder?
We tested all idenical knights with same scopes AND intechanged them in case 1-2 was more accurate than the others. We tested velocity,spread,ease of cleaning,accuracy,fouling,and ease of loading. I'm not trying to sound like know-it-all but when I test 1st hand I learn things.
ORIGINAL: gleason.chapman
Amen, you sound like Jim Shockey on the Outdoor Channel, he trusts his life on it. I am glad you feel that way and you did some testing. When you say you tested APP, BP, 777 and Pyrodex side by side, what was your criteria? Accuracy? Ease of cleaning? How did you weight the different variables, on a 5 point scale? I would say
accuracy is #1,
then velocity,
then standard deviation,
then cleaning ease. And I would weight them 50% on accuracy
25% on velocity and 12.5% on the other 2, have each shooter score independently now showing each others score. Then add up your results and do a Non-Parametric 1 way Analysis of Variance. Then you have an objective experiment.
Chap
ORIGINAL: stalkingbear
The american pioneer powder jim shockey select 3F is the ONLY powder I'll EVER use from now on. Totally non fouling,non corrsive,uniform,accurate,good velocities-what's not to love? We tested this powder side by side with black powder,777,and pyrodex and app came out easily on top!
The american pioneer powder jim shockey select 3F is the ONLY powder I'll EVER use from now on. Totally non fouling,non corrsive,uniform,accurate,good velocities-what's not to love? We tested this powder side by side with black powder,777,and pyrodex and app came out easily on top!
accuracy is #1,
then velocity,
then standard deviation,
then cleaning ease. And I would weight them 50% on accuracy
25% on velocity and 12.5% on the other 2, have each shooter score independently now showing each others score. Then add up your results and do a Non-Parametric 1 way Analysis of Variance. Then you have an objective experiment.
Chap