Ideaman

Must say I was a little surprised at my first load of american pioneer. Loaded 120gr of FFF on a clean gun. Fired at 25 yds, and ran one dry patch, dry patch slightly sticky fairly dirty. Next bullet loaded easy fired at 100yds, 8in low but centered. Adjusted scope, ran one dry patch on jag, patch was sticky during removal. 2nd shot at 100 yds, bullet loaded easy enough, 3 in high, tore hole, clean patch could not be removed. I am going to have to disassemble my gun to get patch and ramrod.

Ap said no need to clean between shots, in fact say use a fouling shot, but not in my nature to think dirty is good. Ap says just shoot and clean after season is over. Again hard for me to do.

Anybody got advice that has seen this first hand, uses AP?

Shockey Gold FFF
120 gr, actually 95 weighed gr
145 gr Barnes MZ
MMP 12 sabots
Savage MLII
Nikon Monarch 3x9x40

cayugad

I shot a lot of the APP powder. You do not have to swab between shots. If you want to, swab with simple water on the first patch and then two dry patches. The damp patch is just slightly damp mind you. Their powder is sugar based. That stuff (gray flakes & powder) you pulled from the barrel was the crud from the burning of that powder.

I have mixed feelings about APP. One day that stuff will shoot so good you're ready to swear over to it. The next day you can not shoot anywhere near those prior groups. Also, if it is raining, be careful as APP will suck moisture from the air like a sponge.

Ideaman

I live in Florida and moisture is always a problem, even when not raining. I will go so far as to premeasure in the Air Conditioning. Do you think that settleing could be the problem, one of the reasons I bought FFF was the smaller grains and better compression of load. I pulled a 120 load and tapped it down to 105 volumetricly, called Ap and they gave me the weight conversion so I am weighing charges.

Johnmorris

I shoot JSG 3 f and goex pinicle 3 f I have good results with both and love the clean up

Semisane

I use JSG FFG in my .58 Zouave with patched round balls and get good accuracy and easy loading,so I like it for that.

However, I've tried it in my Lyman Mustang and have given up on it for higher velocity sabot shooting.

Check out this load comparison: With 300 grain Gold Dots in Harvester sabotsand 140 grains JSG, I got a five shot average velocityof 1388 fps. With the same bullet and 100 grains T-7, I got a five shot average of 1835 fps.

I bought the in-line to shoot sabboted bullets at high velocity for two food plots I have (one 150 yards and one 170 yards). I don't want to give up velocity when I hunt those. Heck, I can shoot heavy and slow with great 100 yard accuracy with my New Englander using 410 grain Hornady Great Plains and 90 grainsPyrodex.

Underclocked

Are you sure you had all the oil removed from the bore before the first loading? Or possibly you might have had an excess of plug grease in there?

Ideaman

I had pulled the breech and run a dry patch, but I would not swear to anything. Did you notice thet it took three shots to foul?

I took everything apart tonight and cleaned, it was not really dirty. The dry patch and jag would not budge either way though, had to drive out with a plastic mallet.

I will re-try tomorrow if I get time, Sat is MZ season and I might have to crank up the old Encore.

Ideaman

Update,

Fired three shot with black MMP sabots 8-10 inches at 100.1 damp patch 2 dry patches reload. Fired three shot with Yellow Barnes Sabots, worse group with these.

Tomorow I am going to try and sight in with Nitrocellulose.

falcon

Tried some APP several years ago. It was much finer thanthe FF JSG that i currently use in my Encore.APP was accurate and cleaned up easily.Had access to a 200 yard firing range and was surprised at the accuracy at that distance. One thing that sticks in my mind is the fact that the APP i used likedreally tight sabots that were hard to load. Like JSG itshot better when heavily tamped.

Because of theirrelatively flatpressure curve, APP and JSGare very low pressure powders. In the test that the NRA did,APP generated an average of 10,400 psi with a 150 grain load.Pyrodex RS generated 20,000 psi with a 150 grain load.

APPis anot as strong asJSG.

Ideaman

I read that report in Rifleman I think, now that you mention. Oddly enough didn't SG have more variability than AP?

Today,
I kept the same load of 95 weighed grains and tried a 300gr xtp. It was better, but by better 3 shots less than 8in and one thrown off target at 100. I am so confused I am going to move to IMR and see if I can make it shoot. This is so bad that I am starting to suspect the scope, a new Monarch.