falcon

"Energy level of a 250 grain .452 @ 2000fps is about 2220fpe"

Read the NRA test dataon TSM pellets.Two TSM pellets do notgive 2000 fps with that bullet.Towlsey in his test got 1850 fps,same as 100 grains of Pyrodex. Their statement is not true.

Talked withsome friends this evening who have extensively chronographed Pyrodex products.They have known for a long time that Pyrodex RS, Pyrodex Select and 777 give very similiar velocities with the same load. Internet hype had lead my dumb butt to believe that777 was so much more powerful that RS or Select. So i went and bought some: Soon it will be gone and i will go back to RS.

herman

I did have an encore and it would shoot unbelieveabe at 100 yds and good out to 200 yds,would I try it on a deer at 300 NO because I have never shot it past 200 yds.
I do have 2 savages would I shoot a deer at 300 yds YES if conditions were right and I had a good rest.Why because I have put a few thousand rounds through a lot of savage muzzleloaders since they came out.And I am confident out to 300 yds.I have only had a close chance of taken one at 300 one time 2 yrs ago the conditions were right ,I had a good rest but the deer was faceing me and wouldn't give me a broadside shot so I didn't shoot.
Last year I took 3 deer with the savage and the average yds was 196 yds.Year before 4 deer and the avg. was 166 yd.Lucked out and got one at 50yds (head shot )
300yds is a long ways even with a savage and I luck out with some great groups some.I put 1500 plus rounds through 2 savages 3 yrs ago in one year.That is a lot of time behind the trigger not counting the expense.
The load I usually shoot drops 7.1 in at 200yds and 26.8 in at 300 yds.My balistic scopes are set up for dead on at 1,2 and 300 yds.
Just got a new thumbhole stock savage last friday and shooting the same load I have shot a few 1 in groups at 100 and put 2 out of 2 shots inside an 8 in circle at 300.
This is not bragging how I can shoot,its showing results of many hours of practice,I shoot at least one day a week many different calibers at 100 and 300 yds.I am sure that if you shoot as much as I do you could do better or at least the same.
Where I shoot;

100 yds with the savage;


200yds;


300yds




Best group so far measures less than an inch 3-shot group at 300.Really got lucky on this one.


Didn't want to leave out the knight and encore;

sabotloader

falcon

I do not know for sure but i think you will find that they put the wrong information in the wrong column... there is a lot of errors in that report...

I will tell you I am shooting 110 grains of T7-2f under a 250 grain bullet and shooting it at 1900 FPE wouldn't take much more to get that to 2000. Just not sure I want to go there.

I really think that whole test is seriously flawed

driftrider

Duplicate post. Not sure what happened when I edited my post. Strange.

Mike

driftrider

[/quote]

I don't know where you're getting your data, but a .30-06 will push a 180gr pill quite a bit faster than 2400fps, unless maybe if you're shooting it from a Encore pistol barrel. 2700-2750fps is much more realistic, and a 180gr bullet at 2700fps produces 2915 ft/lbs at the muzzle. The data I have for 200gr bullets suggests that 2500fps is realistic from the .30-06, which would produce 2775 ft/lbs.

The .30-06, 200gr pill has as much energy at 150 yards as the above ML load at the muzzle. The 180gr bullet gets out to 170 yards before falling below 2220 ft/lbs. Then when you factor in sectional density, the .30-06 will still outperform the .452cal bullet, ft/lb for ft/lb.

Not quite "truth in advertising".

Mike

sabotloader

driftrider

I do stand corrected I was quoting a 220 grain bullet - but even with the amended information his statement is still true on the face..

That is exactly what I said the whole statement is mis-leading, but meant to be that way. Chris H was correct in his statement - he never said it was faster than any 200 grain load he just said it had greater energy... so if you look in the Sierra book you will find the lowest recommended load for several powders is 2200 fps second with an energy production of 2149 (page 551) - there are hotter loads available but Chris never said that, he just stated that he could achieve greater energy than an 06 shooting a 200 grain bullet. He never mentions that the energy of the 250 falls off rather abruptly.

Further on page 549 you will find the base load of a 180 grain load from an 06 is 2400fps with 2300fpe that is why he couldn't say 180 grain...

Nevermind that there are faster loads suggested for each bullet... He is not trying to sale 06 ammo he wants you to buy the T7 mag pellets - so he put out one fact and let you assume the rest unless you look it up.

This is from the fifth edition 2nd. printing of the Sierra Manual

But it is - he never gave you any particulars he made one statement that is correct on the surface and never bothered to provide any explanations... You wonder why game departments think that the modern ML is equal to a modern center fire - misleading information - sensationalism - it sells products...

driftrider

Yeah, I suppose if you look at it that way, it's not EXACTLY a lie[:@], but it is intentionally misleading. In fact it could be considered a lie of omission, since he did not state that he was comparing the minimum loads for the cartridge, but instead implied that the loads were typical of the .30-06. One way or another, it is pure horse**** wrapped in a nice pretty package. I guess the moral of the story is, read all advertising hype with a critical mind. Unfortunately there are many out there who believe anything they read in a gun rag. These days, most articals in gun magazines are just literary infomercials packaged to look like an "expert" evaluations.

But I still wouldn't take a shot at 300 yards with a ML! [:@]

Mike

sabotloader

driftrider

Crap! I even have to think about it pretty hard with my win mag or the 270.... would not even think about with a ML just kiss the opportunity good by...

And most advertisersare banking on exactly that.... it is no TV or a mag so it has to be the truth...

What it does in the case of a ML is sell the white collor people in the fish and game to believe that the ML is greater than it is.... Idaho is caught in that right now... Even the Savage is cutting into that out here in the west. We do not have the population of deer that exist back across the plains...

blackheel

I think one thing that is being overlooked too is foot pounds of energy at 300 yds. I just ran the ballistics on the 300 grain SST and at 300 yards (muzzle velocity 1800 fps) is 845. I've always been told to use 1000 fps for deer. I did take a caribou with an Encore at 225 yards with a 300 grain SST with 110 grains of T7 this summer. With the crosswind, I probably had 12-15" of bullet drift. I held just over the top of the back and hit about 8" down from the spine. Hit the caribou in the lungs, great passthru shot but had it been a whitetail, it would have been gut shot!

falcon

"One way or another, it is pure horse**** wrapped in a nice pretty package."

Kind of like a used car dealerfailing to tell you that thebeautiful 04 Duramax pickupyou are looking atis a Katrina victim.