cayugad

Not all states allow Savage with smokeless powder either. Not that I agree with that, but it is a fact. Also some people got into this sport because of the fact they are NOT shooting smokeless powder. As for all the little problems, that's what makes these rifles interesting.

driftrider

I recognize that not all states allow the use of smokeless powder, but that doesn't preclude using the 10ML-II with BP or the like. My Savage would still be my go-to gun even if I couldn't use smokeless. It's the best build ML I've owned, and I've owned a few. If it's legal in his state, I'd say that he should try it.

And what you call "interesting," I call a time wasting pain-in-the-rear. Now, I know some people may actually enjoy wrestling with the inherent problems with BP subs. Some people enjoy cutting themselves with razor blades, too, but that doesn't mean we all should do it. I get precious little time to shoot and even less these days to hunt, so I place a high premium on the simplicity and user friendliness of the Savage. And since the benefits of smokeless are mostly a matter of economics and ease-of-use, not true performance since the max loads aren't all that much faster than the 150gr T7 loads with the same bullets, the irrational laws against smokeless powder exist only because there are enough whiny sniveling 'traditionalists' that want to make muzzleloading as exclusive and inaccessable as possible. The thing is, with all these so-called "traditionalists" pressuring the DNR's to make these rules, you hardly ever see truely traditional weapons like smoothbore .72cal flintlock muskets in the field or at the range. I guess these people only cherish tradition in small doses. [:@]

Remember, they all load from the front, and I'm no more likely to get a follow-up shot than you are, so why do people feel so threatened by the Savage? Or do ML shooters just like pain? Well, just don't forget to pick up a pack of double-edged razor blades when you get your T7.

I'll stick to pain-free ML'ing, thank you very much!

Mike

sabotloader

steamingutpile

I kinda always hate to get into these "crud ring" discussion becauseI really do not have that problm in any of the guns that I shoot. I only use T7 powder and an completly happy with it's performance. Once in awhile I might bet the hint of the ring but it is not a problem for me becasue I am one that swabs the barrel after each shot, whether I am shooting conicals or sabots. I could/can load up to five sabots easily one after the other if I need to. But I have a theory... I am one of those people that shoots a semi fouled barrel and I also leave loads in for weeks at a time. I also spend a lot of time shooting and I always shoot on this "semi-clean" barrel. So I run a regular windex (windex with ammonia) patch after each shot- in that way each shot i takethe barrel is inthe same condition giving me the same POI. For me running a patch is not a problem it is just part of the routine.

Really do not know if any of this helps becuase ifyou get the "crud ring" you probably will continue to get it and I really have no idea why i do not get the "ring" to the extent that others do...

Doegirl75

That's what I did when I had my Encore. It was easier to clean the mess black powder made than chiseling out those hard triple se7en deposits from your barrel and breech.

steamingutpile

Thanks for the recommendations everyone. Haven't been able to get back to my post due to my son's wedding this past weekend. A real busy time. From readings all the replys I think I will try a hotter primer (CCI) and follow underclocked suggestion regarding the breech plug and buy some more powder other than T7 and give these options a try. Will let you know how it went, thanks again.

frontier gander

I personally would ditch T7, i used to use it until i P'd me off by not shooting worth a crap. I went back to pyrodex RS and P.

wabi

Not promising it will solve the problem, but I just tried the vari-flame primer adapters (209 size & uses small pistol or rifle primer) in my Traditions Pursuit Pro with ffg T-7 and completely eliminated the crud ring! It wasn't too bad with regular 209s, but no ring at all with the vari-flame and a small pistol primer!
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/standard-pod-wrapped.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712-cat601638_TGP&rid=&indexId=cat601638&n avAction=push&masterpathid=&navCount=1&amp ;parentType=index&parentId=cat601638&id=00 34484

srwshooter

http://www.ultracoatingsinc.com/index.htmlput some ultra bore coat in that barrel ,it will fix the crud ring and make it way easy to clean. call doug.

falcon

"I personally would ditch T7, i used to use it until i P'd me off by not shooting worth a crap. I went back to pyrodex RS and P."

My limited experience with T7 has been mixed:

Encore: First shot from a clean bore,exactly on target at 100 yards. Second shot from a dirty bore, somewhere on the target board. Bad crud ring problem.

CVA Mag. Hunter:Just loves Triple Seven and 300 grain XTP bullets with the bore clean ordirty:It justgets harder and harder to load. Horrible crud ring.

Stag Horn: This gun shoots so well i am afraid of ruining itby shootinganythingother thanPyrodex loose or pellets.

steamingutpile

That website was interesting srwshooter and that might be a good investment to provide additional protection for a new firearm. Would there be an issue with the manufacturer as far as the warranty is concerned?