Great Morning in the Rock Pit
10-07-2007, 12:56 PM
#21
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
UC
Question: How much blow back do get with a #11 installed - would it still get after my scope and does it soot up the breech area?/
Easily
It is much stiffer than the one in the A&H bolt...
Here is a pic of the breech area with the 25 laying there - but if the 32 Short is shorter that would be the way to go....
The amount blow back is controlled by the size of the fire channel (flash hole). Currently I can fire a really stiff load from my White and it does not even come close to disloging the the 209 primer... Doc has even suggested I am a whimp and should shoot a stiffer load and a much heavier bullet - but I will pass...
For safey a vent hole could also be installed in the BP as Randy has done with his. You can not beleive how much cleaner the A&H is with his setup.
The real problem is there is just to little area in the breech area to insert the shell with your fingers.... especially with a scope mounted.
Kind of interested in what Dos says...
Question: How much blow back do get with a #11 installed - would it still get after my scope and does it soot up the breech area?/
ps: does the head of an ACP case even fit inside the opening on a UMag 209 hammer?
And I don't know if the standard spring would be enough to keep the case from trying to blow back out at you.
And I don't know if there would be room for a standard case to be inserted/removed (doubtful). I think you would be talking major re-design.
The amount blow back is controlled by the size of the fire channel (flash hole). Currently I can fire a really stiff load from my White and it does not even come close to disloging the the 209 primer... Doc has even suggested I am a whimp and should shoot a stiffer load and a much heavier bullet - but I will pass...
For safey a vent hole could also be installed in the BP as Randy has done with his. You can not beleive how much cleaner the A&H is with his setup.
The real problem is there is just to little area in the breech area to insert the shell with your fingers.... especially with a scope mounted.
Kind of interested in what Dos says...
10-07-2007, 02:00 PM
#22
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,092
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
Yep, considerable sooting and blowback with 11s both scope and action. A better solution would be to cut the case length of a .25 ACP by about 1/3 to 1/2. I think it would still work fine and be much easier to handle. One session at trimming cases could keep a fellow going for a long time. A couple of hundred cases would last indefinitely? Have you had to trash any yet?
You should be able to find the .32 S&W dimensions on this page about 2/3 down the page.. http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/revolver.htm It isn't listed as short but that should be it - given the long is below. I think Doc chose it over some others perhaps because of the rim making the casing easier to handle/extract.
I've considered a .25 ACP for both my G2 and Encores but have so far avoided the temptation. I have Hornet plugs for the Encore and don't use them as they aren't worth the aggravation.
Does that case fit the 209 bolt face well enough to positive ignition on the primer in the case. I have a 209 hammer or two but don't want to dig them out. I WOULD like for YOU to pursue this idea though.
You should be able to find the .32 S&W dimensions on this page about 2/3 down the page.. http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/revolver.htm It isn't listed as short but that should be it - given the long is below. I think Doc chose it over some others perhaps because of the rim making the casing easier to handle/extract.
I've considered a .25 ACP for both my G2 and Encores but have so far avoided the temptation. I have Hornet plugs for the Encore and don't use them as they aren't worth the aggravation.
Does that case fit the 209 bolt face well enough to positive ignition on the primer in the case. I have a 209 hammer or two but don't want to dig them out. I WOULD like for YOU to pursue this idea though.
10-07-2007, 02:37 PM
#23
Boone & Crockett
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
UC
OK according to the chart you provided...
25 ACP -> Casing lgth.62" Rim Diameter .298
32 Short Colt-> Casing lgth .65Rim Diameter .377
32 S&W ->Casing lgth .61Rim Diameter .375
It really does look like the 25 ACP would be the best casing. Right now of course the 25 ACP is to large in diameter to go down into a 209 aperture. But using this casing would require less loss of metal. The 32 would requirea larger hole.
If you cut the case length by half it would almost fit in the existing 209 cavity
Never have trashed any - but have lost some in the snow... when you flip th Omega open it tends to flip the casing out....
The short is down the page just a it farther
Take it from an Omega owner if you shoot them more than occaisionally they are worth every penny. Keeps crud completely out of the firing pin area - they are clean.
Fit is not a problem at all...
The e-mail is in to Doc...
My concern is the size of the flash hole in the end of the BP as compared to the size of the flash hole under the 209...
The case fits just perfect into a 209 capper
OK according to the chart you provided...
25 ACP -> Casing lgth.62" Rim Diameter .298
32 Short Colt-> Casing lgth .65Rim Diameter .377
32 S&W ->Casing lgth .61Rim Diameter .375
It really does look like the 25 ACP would be the best casing. Right now of course the 25 ACP is to large in diameter to go down into a 209 aperture. But using this casing would require less loss of metal. The 32 would requirea larger hole.
A better solution would be to cut the case length of a .25 ACP by about 1/3 to 1/2.
Have you had to trash any yet?
dimensions on this page about 2/3 down the page..
I've considered a .25 ACP for both my G2 and Encores but have so far avoided the temptation.
Does that case fit the 209 bolt face well enough to positive ignition on the primer in the case. I have a 209 hammer or two but don't want to dig them out.
I WOULD like for YOU to pursue this idea though.
My concern is the size of the flash hole in the end of the BP as compared to the size of the flash hole under the 209...
The case fits just perfect into a 209 capper
10-07-2007, 03:01 PM
#24
Boone & Crockett
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
e-mail message back from DOC...
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For the 336 to work as designed, it has to be backed by a bolt or closed action. Your problem with the U-Mag is that the 336 may well come flying out of the orifice and touch some part of your anatomy. Haven't tried it yet, so can't really say and am unwilling to take the risk. DOC
10-07-2007, 08:20 PM
#27
Boone & Crockett
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
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RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
UC
What it really comes down to, for me, is the size of the flash hole in the end of the BP - It is really big - it will allow a lot of pressure back.... no if that hole were the size of the 209 flash hole it would all come together. Comparing the powder side flash hole on the A&H BP it is even smaller than the flash under the 209 cap in the White BP... Blow back has to be contained on that side of the breech plug not in it or through it.
Even it I were to have a machinist build what I think I need I still would be looking at trying to load them in the small area.... I think I am talking myself out of it....
C-dad what are you going to do... you know you created him sort like the "crud ring." When I first met him before he became a DWB - he was a really nice guy in love with his family now look at him....DWB's has changed his whole life.
What it really comes down to, for me, is the size of the flash hole in the end of the BP - It is really big - it will allow a lot of pressure back.... no if that hole were the size of the 209 flash hole it would all come together. Comparing the powder side flash hole on the A&H BP it is even smaller than the flash under the 209 cap in the White BP... Blow back has to be contained on that side of the breech plug not in it or through it.
Even it I were to have a machinist build what I think I need I still would be looking at trying to load them in the small area.... I think I am talking myself out of it....
C-dad what are you going to do... you know you created him sort like the "crud ring." When I first met him before he became a DWB - he was a really nice guy in love with his family now look at him....DWB's has changed his whole life.
10-07-2007, 10:18 PM
#29
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,092
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
Where there is a will, there is a way. The nose of the plug could be made to extend into the bore by just a wee bit, maybe 1/4" or so would be sufficient and that would give considerable metal to run a smaller flash hole. Might even get creative and leave space for a full wrap of teflon on the "nose". 
Heck, let's get Woodgoat to make one.
Heck, let's get Woodgoat to make one.
10-08-2007, 07:30 AM
#30
Boone & Crockett
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Great Morning in the Rock Pit
UC
Getting Woodgoat to make one is a real thought... He could use on of my A&H plugs for an example.
I am not sure about extending the nose into the barrel to far - I think that is one of the reasons Toby blew-up that Savage powder was getting lodged between the the nose of the Savage BP and the walls of the barrel... course that was smokless where a little bit goes a long ways.... With BP or a sub it really should not make that kind of difference...
I am headed out on scouting mission right now (I want to see if I can make a bull mad enough)- this afternoon or this evening I want to try putting a 25 ACP in the capper again and see if it will go down in the space between the BP and hammer face.
Getting Woodgoat to make one is a real thought... He could use on of my A&H plugs for an example.
I am not sure about extending the nose into the barrel to far - I think that is one of the reasons Toby blew-up that Savage powder was getting lodged between the the nose of the Savage BP and the walls of the barrel... course that was smokless where a little bit goes a long ways.... With BP or a sub it really should not make that kind of difference...
I am headed out on scouting mission right now (I want to see if I can make a bull mad enough)- this afternoon or this evening I want to try putting a 25 ACP in the capper again and see if it will go down in the space between the BP and hammer face.