Who determines "Black Powder Substitute"?
10-04-2007, 08:44 PM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Who determines "Black Powder Substitute"?
ORIGINAL: Semisane
Well, you sure got me there Moebedda. Now please tell me what the heck you're talking about??? If you think I was "taking shots" I apologize, that was not my intent. However,I will NOT kiss you.
If you want to troll and take shots. There you go. kiss my ass
I believe he (Moebedda was directing that at me Semisane, based on my response to you. I was not trolling or taking shots at you, and I apologize to the board and to you if anyone thought I was, that was NOT my intent. Chap Gleason
10-04-2007, 08:52 PM
#22
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
Posts: 10,918
RE: Who determines "Black Powder Substitute"?
No apology called for - never even thought any shots were taken.
Bunch of real good guys here. The only shots I've seen were the holes in posted targets.
Bunch of real good guys here. The only shots I've seen were the holes in posted targets.
10-04-2007, 09:37 PM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Who determines "Black Powder Substitute"?
ORIGINAL: Semisane
No apology called for - never even thought any shots were taken.
Bunch of real good guys here. The only shots I've seen were the holes in posted targets.
No apology called for - never even thought any shots were taken.
Bunch of real good guys here. The only shots I've seen were the holes in posted targets.
10-05-2007, 08:52 AM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,081
RE: Who determines "Black Powder Substitute"?
I'm not sure about the specifics of the powder (I have sent off for some info on it) but IMR has a powder, Trail Boss,targeted at the cowboy actionblack powder revolver/cartridge rifle market. It is bulkier than standard smokeless powders to aid in not overcharging a case and may be closer to BP on a volumn basis (not sure but hope the info requested will show how close). One of the loads listed on their site is for 45-70 and a 405 bullet using 13gr by weight and developing around 25000 CUP, not that different from some loads used in many inlines. Since this is designed and marketed for use in some versions of black powder cartridge guns my question would be, would it be appropriate for other BP designed guns.
Just a thought, not wanting to start a big argument.
Just a thought, not wanting to start a big argument.
10-05-2007, 10:29 AM
#25
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Little Chute, WI
Posts: 143
RE: Who determines "Black Powder Substitute"?
ORIGINAL: Semisane
Well, you sure got me there Moebedda. Now please tell me what the heck you're talking about??? If you think I was "taking shots" I apologize, that was not my intent. However,I will NOT kiss you.
If you want to troll and take shots. There you go. kiss my ass
10-05-2007, 10:31 AM
#26
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Little Chute, WI
Posts: 143
RE: Who determines "Black Powder Substitute"?
ORIGINAL: gleason.chapman
Semisane,
I believe he (Moebedda was directing that at me Semisane, based on my response to you. I was not trolling or taking shots at you, and I apologize to the board and to you if anyone thought I was, that was NOT my intent. Chap Gleason
ORIGINAL: Semisane
Well, you sure got me there Moebedda. Now please tell me what the heck you're talking about??? If you think I was "taking shots" I apologize, that was not my intent. However,I will NOT kiss you.
If you want to troll and take shots. There you go. kiss my ass
I believe he (Moebedda was directing that at me Semisane, based on my response to you. I was not trolling or taking shots at you, and I apologize to the board and to you if anyone thought I was, that was NOT my intent. Chap Gleason
10-05-2007, 11:08 AM
#28
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Who determines "Black Powder Substitute"?
dmurphy317
I have seen several ads for this powder in magazines... but I for some reason thought it was a nitro powder...
Here is some additional information from Hodgdon on the powder...
http://www.imrpowder.com/data/rifle/trailboss-oct2005.php
All the information that I have found indicates it to be a regular "smokeless" powder. And if you look at this loading table volume for volume it would not be close... A suggested load for a 45-70 government with a 300 grain bullet is 14 grains (by weight) of Trail Boss,
but IMR has a powder, Trail Boss,targeted at the cowboy actionblack powder revolver/cartridge rifle market.
Trail Boss is designed specifically for low velocity lead bullet loads suitable for Cowboy Action shooting. It is primarily a pistol powder, but has some application in rifle. It is based on a whole new technology which allows very high loading density, good flow through powder measures, stability in severe temperature variation and most importantly, additional safety to the handloader.
http://www.imrpowder.com/data/rifle/trailboss-oct2005.php
All the information that I have found indicates it to be a regular "smokeless" powder. And if you look at this loading table volume for volume it would not be close... A suggested load for a 45-70 government with a 300 grain bullet is 14 grains (by weight) of Trail Boss,
10-05-2007, 11:28 AM
#29
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,081
RE: Who determines "Black Powder Substitute"?
SL,
That is the info I already looked at which is just the basics. I had talked to someone some time back at a SASS event that told me about the powder and that it was purposely made bulkier to help prevent overcharging of the cases. I'm still waiting on info from IMR but my memory of the conversation is that the max listed loads would come close to if not fully fill the case of the cartrdge making it dificult to imposible to double charge a case. In the example of a 45-70 this could mean that 14gr by weight may be a similar volumn to 70gr of BP. I realize that 70gr of BP is not going to have anywhere near the listed pressure in the chart for that 45-70 load but the volumn may be similar. Like I mentioned, I have requested more detailed info from IMR and will report back when and if they respond. As far as the make up of the powder I did not notice if it specified nitro or not but your probably correct on that. Then again, nitro based smokeless was the original BP substitute.
That is the info I already looked at which is just the basics. I had talked to someone some time back at a SASS event that told me about the powder and that it was purposely made bulkier to help prevent overcharging of the cases. I'm still waiting on info from IMR but my memory of the conversation is that the max listed loads would come close to if not fully fill the case of the cartrdge making it dificult to imposible to double charge a case. In the example of a 45-70 this could mean that 14gr by weight may be a similar volumn to 70gr of BP. I realize that 70gr of BP is not going to have anywhere near the listed pressure in the chart for that 45-70 load but the volumn may be similar. Like I mentioned, I have requested more detailed info from IMR and will report back when and if they respond. As far as the make up of the powder I did not notice if it specified nitro or not but your probably correct on that. Then again, nitro based smokeless was the original BP substitute.
10-05-2007, 01:09 PM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,092
RE: Who determines "Black Powder Substitute"?
http://www.gunblast.com/IMR_TrailBoss.htm
One thing I read in looking for info (that would make it unsuitable for a muzzleloader aside from being smokeless and comparable to fast burning pistol powders!!) is that Trail Boss is very sensitive to compression so far as burn rate.
One thing I read in looking for info (that would make it unsuitable for a muzzleloader aside from being smokeless and comparable to fast burning pistol powders!!) is that Trail Boss is very sensitive to compression so far as burn rate.