Understanding Sabots
10-03-2007, 02:44 PM
#21
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Understanding Sabots
LEE
Actually - I do on deer easily to 100 but boar I am not qualified to give a good answer but i really think so...
Next question - 1) does the forearm barrel channel touch the barrel along the entire length of the forearm? 2) have you tried shooting it for accuracy without the forearm? What I am really working to is installing a shock absorbtion system in the forearm. This is what the NEF shooters had to do with their forearms to increase accuracy.
Did not we talk about the Limb Saver Resonance Ring once - Limb Saver says this reduces barrel harmonics a great deal - all of this because I think your barrel might be developing excessive whip with the higher charges and heavier projectiles. And I would be the first person to tell you that I am grasping. Kinda wish you lived around here - I would like to try a couple of experiments - but I ain't gonna go buy one just to try...
I'll run back on the other computer and plug in some numbers for you to look at...
Here are two sheets - 2100 fps shot with 110 grains of 2f and an estimated 1875 with 90 grains - might even be a bit higher...
Do you think 90 gr of 777-FF will push a 200gr 40 cal XTP hard enough to do a good job on a deer or boar?
forarm is held on with two screws that screw into loops the ramrod goes through about i/4 and 3/4of the way for the tip of the tip of the forarm back toward the pivot point.
Did not we talk about the Limb Saver Resonance Ring once - Limb Saver says this reduces barrel harmonics a great deal - all of this because I think your barrel might be developing excessive whip with the higher charges and heavier projectiles. And I would be the first person to tell you that I am grasping. Kinda wish you lived around here - I would like to try a couple of experiments - but I ain't gonna go buy one just to try...
I'll run back on the other computer and plug in some numbers for you to look at...
Here are two sheets - 2100 fps shot with 110 grains of 2f and an estimated 1875 with 90 grains - might even be a bit higher...
10-03-2007, 09:52 PM
#22
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
RE: Understanding Sabots
[quote]ORIGINAL: sabotloader
Next question - 1) does the forearm barrel channel touch the barrel along the entire length of the forearm? 2) have you tried shooting it for accuracy without the forearm? What I am really working to is installing a shock absorbtion system in the forearm. This is what the NEF shooters had to do with their forearms to increase accuracy.
Mike,
Yes the forearm channel touchs the barrel all the way.
no I have not tried it with out the forearm
I would like to have some more information on that shoch absorber system
The only harmonics damper that I have had any experance with was on a High Power, If you have any info on that or experance with it I would like to hear about it. Thanks Lee
Next question - 1) does the forearm barrel channel touch the barrel along the entire length of the forearm? 2) have you tried shooting it for accuracy without the forearm? What I am really working to is installing a shock absorbtion system in the forearm. This is what the NEF shooters had to do with their forearms to increase accuracy.
Mike,
Yes the forearm channel touchs the barrel all the way.
no I have not tried it with out the forearm
I would like to have some more information on that shoch absorber system
The only harmonics damper that I have had any experance with was on a High Power, If you have any info on that or experance with it I would like to hear about it. Thanks Lee
10-03-2007, 10:13 PM
#23
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Understanding Sabots
Lee
This is the limbsaver deresonator. It is built for a rifle - no ram rod but it does really help groups in the average rifle.
http://www.limbsaver.com/Products/Firearms/Barrel_De_Resonator.aspx
I will try to get C-dad to take a picture of the internal re-fab work that he completed on his NEF. They use RVT Blue silicone to build a pliable barrel cushioning - doing the same thing as the De-Resonator. It also absorbs some of the pressure of the gun being support under the forearm without pushing on the barrel.
I am thinking you could do the same thing by bedding the barrel in RVT in your forearm. The cushion will absorb some of the vibrations and the cushion will also serve to reduce the pressure on the barrel as you apply upward pressure to the forearm.
Since you are an accomplished bench shooter - how about shooting a group without any support under the forearm place the front bag or restbehind the hinge - this way the shot should not force the barrel down againstany pressure on the forearm.
In the back of my mind I still worry a bit about the two forearm screws - could they bepulling the barrel downsome or even unequally.
Still just grasping
I'll get ahold of c-dad
This is the limbsaver deresonator. It is built for a rifle - no ram rod but it does really help groups in the average rifle.
http://www.limbsaver.com/Products/Firearms/Barrel_De_Resonator.aspx
I will try to get C-dad to take a picture of the internal re-fab work that he completed on his NEF. They use RVT Blue silicone to build a pliable barrel cushioning - doing the same thing as the De-Resonator. It also absorbs some of the pressure of the gun being support under the forearm without pushing on the barrel.
I am thinking you could do the same thing by bedding the barrel in RVT in your forearm. The cushion will absorb some of the vibrations and the cushion will also serve to reduce the pressure on the barrel as you apply upward pressure to the forearm.
Since you are an accomplished bench shooter - how about shooting a group without any support under the forearm place the front bag or restbehind the hinge - this way the shot should not force the barrel down againstany pressure on the forearm.
In the back of my mind I still worry a bit about the two forearm screws - could they bepulling the barrel downsome or even unequally.
Still just grasping
I'll get ahold of c-dad
10-04-2007, 01:48 AM
#24
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tri Cities, Washington
Posts: 1,616
RE: Understanding Sabots
OK, I am at SLers beck-n-call, whutever that means.
I did RTV bed my 223 NEF Handi Rifle. Before bedding, using a few different types of factory ammo, the best I could do was about 1 1/2 -1 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards. The rifle was also not consistent on POI from one trip to the range to the next. The NEF has one forearm screw and it is all VERY dependant on torque applied. I don't have a torque wrench, so it was all by feel.
After the RTV job, I got 1 1/4" groups from 2 different factory loads I tried. Both of those groups basically went into one group and it was very consistent from trip to trip. Here are a few pics.
At some point I am going to take this out and redo it. I think it should be a little thicker.
I did RTV bed my 223 NEF Handi Rifle. Before bedding, using a few different types of factory ammo, the best I could do was about 1 1/2 -1 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards. The rifle was also not consistent on POI from one trip to the range to the next. The NEF has one forearm screw and it is all VERY dependant on torque applied. I don't have a torque wrench, so it was all by feel.
After the RTV job, I got 1 1/4" groups from 2 different factory loads I tried. Both of those groups basically went into one group and it was very consistent from trip to trip. Here are a few pics.
At some point I am going to take this out and redo it. I think it should be a little thicker.
10-04-2007, 01:52 AM
#25
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tri Cities, Washington
Posts: 1,616
RE: Understanding Sabots
I also wanted to try a deresonator, so I have one installed but haven't shot the gun yet with it. Really don't know if it will make much of a difference with the heavy barrel, but it is worth a try.
How's this for service Mike?
Like the Mueller?
How's this for service Mike?
Like the Mueller?
10-04-2007, 10:01 AM
#27
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
RE: Understanding Sabots
Thanks guys,going to try some things I'll let you know either by posting or PM on how they come out.it will be a while as our MZ season starts the 13 of this month and I will wait till at least the first season is over or I run out of tags.Only put one down with a bow so far so I have 2 more tags. Lee
