Semisane

Here's the e-mail I sent to the Speer technical center.

"I use Speer .452 Gold Dot/Hollow Point #3974 (300 grain) and #4484 (250 grain) with a sabot in several muzzle loading rifles at muzzle velocities ranging from 1600 to 1900 fps.

Can you provide me with the "best performance" upper and lower limit
design impact velocities for these two bullets?"

Here's their response.

"The #3974 (300 grain)will handle the velocity as it is a 454 Casull designed bullet. The #4484 (250 grain) is designed for the 45 Colt (see atch'd file) for max velocity.

If you drive a Gold Dot bullet too fast, it will over-expand and then
over-penetrate.

Shoot Straight!
Coy Getman
CCI/Speer Technical Coordinator "

And my reply.

"Thanks much for the quick reply.

I'm a little confused here with respect to your comment that "If you drive a Gold Dot bullet too fast, it will over-expand and then over-penetrate."

Wouldn't the expansion reduce penetration?? I'd love to have good expansion and full penetration on deer.

Let me throw a monkey-wrench into the mix. I'm shooting these bullets
in a plastic sabot in the muzzle loaders. As a result, the jacket does
not get engraved by the rifling. Isn't this likely to slow or reduce expansion?

I always shoot straight (well, almost always)! "

And their second reply.

"Gold Dot bullets are cut to the expected expansion depth, so the
rifling cut will have little effect on expansion. Velocity is the key
issue and what the bullet strikes follows close behind.

The "petals" on the expanded bullet open to a given point and tend to
stay at that wide dimension during penetration. Over-driven, petals
fold back along the shank of the bullet and that reduces frontal area
increasing penetration due to the reduced frontal area. With the second
scenario, you also run a risk of tearing-off the petals, if done to the
extreme, then fragmentation and reduced bullet weight.

Almost always.....works for me!

Coy "

And my final reply.

"AH HAH!!! I see the light.

Thank You. "

The attachment he provided regarding the 250 grain/45 Colt bullet is in PDF format. I couldn't get it to attach to this thread. Basically, it recommends velocities below 1000 fps. Anyone who wants it can shoot me an e-mail and I'll send it that way.

sabotloader

Semisane

Here is both bullets driven into wet soil and sand. Muzzle velocity of 1860 on the 250 and 1750 on the 300... Do not think you can aske for much better than this...

Semisane

Ya' got that right sabotloader. I do believe Gold Dots will be my bullet of choice next season.

So far, the 300's are shooting slightly better than the 250's for me. But I haven't finished playing with all of the different load and powder variations for the two.

alleyyooper

I would like to see the results of a bullet weighed before shot and again after recovered.
I have recored as much as a 5 gr. varance in unfire bullets.

Al

oldrookie

semisane.....no wonder your semisane! Your giving me a headache with all this data. You got to keep it simple for the Rook. I've had in length communication with sabotloader who is very fond of the gold dot. If you look at the little chart on the 777 jug, I believe its states with 100g a 250g will generate 1750+ (dont have the jug in front of me), is this too fast?Should Iback down to 90g?

cayugad

oldrookie.. shoot what is most accurate. If 100 grains produces better accuracy then 90, shot that. If 90 grains is better, then that is your load. The slight difference in powder is not going to make a lot of difference.

mljeep

Sabotloader... wonder what he velocity was at 100 yards when the bullets in the picture ade impact? Could very well be they were in the deired range.

Semisane

Sorry 'bout the headache, oldrookie, but I love playing with this stuff.

In my 28" barrel Lyman Mustang, I get a 5-shot average of:

1731fps with90 grains T-7 FFG,
1761 fps with 100 grains, and
1894 fps with 110 grains.

I don't think any of those are too fast. Those picturessabotloader provided ofthe 250 grainers that he shot into wet soil at 1860 fps sure indicate this bullet will hold together in flesh at pretty high velocity.

gleason.chapman

The 300g GD held togehter nice on a doe I got in late Penna FL season. No weight loss, perfect expansion. Excellent bullet in my mind. Chap Gleason

sabotloader

mljeep

Could very well be but even at 25 yards they were holding together and of course they are coming down invelocity @ 100.... The Hornady's came apart @100 and @ 25 - but as i have said shooting wet clay is not shooting animal...