Pglasgow

I don't think I would ever attempt a 200 yard shot with PRB either. I figure there is enough thump, at least for deer, but it takes so little wind to push it off target that, except under the most ideal circumstances, it would be ill advised to do so.

My point really is that choosing PRB as a projectile does limit range and takes away possibilities. The effect? A different hunting strategy and most likely diminished opportunity. These particular limititations were indeed justification for a special primitive hunt. Not to say that an inline with a conical isn't more primitive than a centerfire rifle, even so, I feel that a fast twist inline with an appropriate heavy conical, is pretty close in performance to a BPCR like a 50-70 or 50-90. I am told Knights are rated for 50-150 with a 400 grain conical.

Now a shockwave with a 130 or 150 grains of pellets in a fast twist inline, definitely a formidable weapon, IMHO, superior to say a 30-30 centerfire rifle.

sabotloader

Pglasgow

But ballistically it is not, plus you have more than one shot, it is water proof and it goes off when you pull the trigger.Many more positives for the good old 30-30..

Pglasgow

Well if you want to "tie your hands behind your back", you can use 85-90 grains of powder and a 250 xtp. But I clearly said 3 pellets and a shockwave. Using your own BC number for the 200 SW see below.

Also, what kind of bullet are you choosing for the 30-30? The appropriate bullet is a roundnose which would generally have a BC of less than .200. Go to Hornady's website and see for yourself. Obviously this can go on tit for tat. Heck, the 30-30 centerfire rifle shooter could argue that inliners won't let them play in "their" (inliners)season in spite of their inferior weapons. Its utterly pointless to brag about about how limited one is when outfitted with a "Sunday Night Extreme" weapon and load combination.

dmurphy317

Sabotloader,
Using your example, the 250SW would have to be going close to 2200fps to match the trajectory of the 30-30 out to 200 yards. The 30-30 load you choseis also on the slow side for a 150 bullet, I hand load for my 30-30 and get right at 2500fps with a 150 round nose. The new Leverevolution ammo make the comparison even less similarin favor ofthe 30-30.

It's been a while since I looked at the original point of this thread and I think we've got off subject a ways. I do agree that the choice of projectile and the performance of that projectile is as limiting a factor as the type of sights one uses and far out weighs the type of action a gun has in terms of range and effectiveness.

Pglasgow

What are you using forcharge and primer?

I think sabotloader used a good number for MV. Walk into your local Walmart or sporting goods store and ask for a box of 30-30 shells and you can bet your boots the MV will be at or less than the number that sabotloader used. Only difference is that the B.C. will actually be around .190.

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=1ebf62d1397ab3df03b0183f2578e29c&p age=shop%2Fbrowse&category_id=ffd8e51c7827b4ee d2fb35a333f4eafb

frontier gander

coming from a 30-30 owner, i'd easily take my muzzleloader over the 3030 any day for 200 yard shooting.

sabotloader

dmurphy317

I agree, when I made this tabel up I was using a general loads. My hand loads are hatter also and I have a box of Lever/evolutions laying here I am going to shoot one of these days... I just wish I could buy that bullet.

In our state the pervailing forces have convinced the right people that modern ML's have surpassed the average centerfire, after all if it is a mganum it must be as good as an 06 if not better. Companies advertising thier product do not help this pecrception. I keep presententing the fact that a 30-30 on average offers more opportunities than a modern ML including inlines, but ther is a very large group of people that are totally convinced that the Idaho legal inline offers so much more than a sidelock.

The original subject came about because a state official told me that we could not use pluger type inlines with caps because the lock time was so much faster than a pivoting hammer, so the only weapons that were going to be legal were exposed pivoting hammer guns either inline or sidehammer. My point was that some of the newer TC locks provided a pretty decent lock time as compared to the older ones...

There is a lot of biased information in this state right now the ears of authority have heard it all...

Pglasgow

Don't you think that comes off as ingenuine? No one is saying that. They are saying that have exceeded the capabilities they desire to be legal during the primitive muzzlerloader hunts. They are saying that centerfire performance has been approached (i think exceeded in the case of the 30-30) to the point the original primitive intent needs to be enforced.

Everyone belly aching about this as though it is a right they have. Fact is, it has been a privilege. As with all privelege, the first taken is the last given. It simple works that way. Likewise, if the state has to choose between ML season and rifle season, I can guarantee it will the the ML season, the latter privilege given, to go.

Lets be honest. Years ago, before there was a ML season, there existed a group of avid enthusiasts of the tradition of shooting and hunting withthe replica firearms of our frontier past. These people, without the benefit of a special season went out in the rifle season and had to bear the indignation of having game they attempted to stalk within 80 yards of, shot from 300 yards away by high powered rifle owners.

These same folks were organized. They became volunteers to the game department. The generously contributed labor and money to wildlife projects. And, they courted their State's approval of a season to call their own. And their State granted this request.

I'm more than happy to acknowledge that this season was originally intended to be as primitive as hunting was in the frontier days. It was what everyone wanted then. This aspect of the season is ruined by folks who resist to cooperate with the spirit and intent of it. I have said this before, Pennsylvania is fortunate to have their flinter season. I hope they always do.

What is sad, is that the response from the inliners has been one of anarchy. I might add that this is the very reason we have a republic. So that an unjust majority can not wield too much power. Its been like a temper tantrum and I don't feel its been a positive example at all.

dmurphy317

I checked a few factory 150 30-30 loads and they were in the 2390fps range. the 170's were in the 2200 range.

My load is using a standard LR primer and IMR 3031. The load is .5 grains below the listed max in the manual I found it in. It shoots about 1" at 100 yards and 2.5 to 3 at 200 yards and only drops about 5.5" at 200 when sighted in for 100. I usually sight in 2" high at 100 so it is only down about 1.6" at 200 at my altitude of 6500 feet.

If I match your 170 yard sight in, the trajectory is almost identical to your 200 bullet.

I have always heard that a ML'er is, for all intents and purposes, basically like a 30-30 when it comes to range. Most would not take a 200+ yard shot with a 30-30 using standard bullet types and most would not take that shot with a ML'er.

What I find interesting is many shooters limit themselves to what some consider medium archery ranges. I have a friend that shot a nice muley this past season with his bow at 85 yards. Last year his 16 year old son shot a nice bull elk threw the heart at 75 yards. Another friend, before he damaged his hand and had to quit bow hunting, would routinely shoot out to 125 yards if the conditions were right, he rarely missed because he only took high percentage shots at those ranges.

All this to say, the person doing the shooting is as much a part of the formula as the rifle in determining the outcome of a chosen shot. Some people just have a knack for shooting accurately and others have to work at it. But it still comes down to hunting skills more so than shooting skills, you do have to be able to find the game before you can shoot at it.

dmurphy317

Pglasgow,
In some states they do have a "primitive" moniker on their muzzleloader season and for those states they usually have a definition of what a "primitive" weapon is. For many other states they have a "Muzzleloader" season and the definition for what they mean. Other states have a "Black Powder" season and they define that.

If a state has a truely primitive season (like PA)then the folks who want to "reenact the good old days" have something they can call their own. On the other hand, if a state has a muzzleloader season, then the term needs to be defined based on muzzleloaders not on some reenactors exclusivity definition. Many of these seasons have come about in the reletively recent past and are looked at as a form of herd control more than a "get back to the old days" special hunt. Of course these are my opinions and I'm sure others will disagree.That's what makesAmerica great.