Apex
03-13-2007, 02:27 PM
#12
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,149
RE: Apex
I'll share through the email if you'd like, cascadedad. I have made too many people angry by speaking about it on here. Basically, I'm too inexperienced and know nothing about MLing despite my 3 years experience, blah blah blah....
Let me know if you'd like me to share.
Let me know if you'd like me to share.
03-13-2007, 04:00 PM
#13
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 5,180
RE: Apex
His problem was that when he got it, he sighted in for 60 yards 1 1/2" high and got 3" groups and he was happy with that. Then the next post he was whining about it not hitting the target and we find out he had switched to sabots w/o telling us. then when he got his omega he got it sighted in and his groups @ 100 yards were 6" with the omega. Hes cut them down to 3 1/2". so its pretty clear that he didnt know he had to resight in when you swab from powerbelts to sabots. And there seems to be a triggerpull-flinch in there somewhere affecting groups. But flinching you really cant help, Even i catch myself doing it every now and then and its like.. uhhh why did i just flinch? lol. Just one of those things that slips in now and then.
03-14-2007, 03:00 PM
#14
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,149
RE: Apex
Basically, I tried a lot of different sabots and loads and never got it to shoot decent. I did start out OK with it at 50 yards, taking about 15 shots or something to get sighted in and then getting about 4 inch groups. The problem seemed to be at 100 yards with it. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. I had it sighted about 2 or 3 inches high at 50 but could not get on target at 100. I did manage to hit the target a few times but overall I couldn't even get a foot group. I did try several different bullets and combinations and put about 60 bullets through it.
I gave up and bought the Omega. In 3 shots I was right on target 2 inches high at 50 ydsand I haven't adjusted the sights since. I started out shooting 6 inch groups at 100 but got it down to around 3 1/2 now with open sights and the perfect load. I feel confident saying that it wasn't just luck thatI had such a better experience with the Omega.
I bet the Apexwould be a great shooter if you had enough time to figure it out. I for one put plenty of time into mine and got horrible results. Maybe the Omega is just easier to tune. Who knows. I for one am happier with my Omega and am glad I switched. Decide for yourself. I just shared my experience.
I gave up and bought the Omega. In 3 shots I was right on target 2 inches high at 50 ydsand I haven't adjusted the sights since. I started out shooting 6 inch groups at 100 but got it down to around 3 1/2 now with open sights and the perfect load. I feel confident saying that it wasn't just luck thatI had such a better experience with the Omega.
I bet the Apexwould be a great shooter if you had enough time to figure it out. I for one put plenty of time into mine and got horrible results. Maybe the Omega is just easier to tune. Who knows. I for one am happier with my Omega and am glad I switched. Decide for yourself. I just shared my experience.
03-14-2007, 03:03 PM
#15
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,149
RE: Apex
I don't remember the specific loads used butI do know that none of the ones that shot good at 50 shot good at 100. Frontier does not have all of the facts correct. He just doesn't like me bashing his gun---which I'm not.
03-14-2007, 03:53 PM
#16
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 5,180
RE: Apex
Thats not true. i just went back and reread your original posts when you bought it and started shooting. All someone has to do to get the facts is type your SN into the search and go to page 5 or 6 and start reading from there.
Heres your memory refreshment.. 245 powerbelts "sabots you call them" and 100 grains pyrodex RS.
Well, I shot the Apex and am much more pleased with myself and the gun than last time. I thought thatI was shooting 50 yards but when I counted it off just now it was 60. So, I got the bullet to strike EXACTLY dead on and 1- 1 1/2 inches high at that range. I swabbed between each shot while sighting. The first was a bit too farleft.I adjusted the sights and the next was too high and too right. I adjusted again and it was right where I wanted it but a bit right still. After thenext adjustment I got it absolutely perfect. I decided it was right where I wanted it and decided to test the accuracy levels without swabbing. My next shot was right by the other. The following four shots were all slowly moving further and further out.
After sight adjustmentI ended up with a 3 inch group. Again, this was without swabbing and I didn't get another to go in the same spot as my best one but they all came close.
The conclusion is that this gun is capable of great accuracy without a doubt. At 60 yards a 3 inch group is not great but I am positive I could have had them all touching if I had swabbed. I didn't though(swab), soI could test the difference.
Swabbing is neccessary for the absolute best accuracy but not mandatory until after 6 shots or so. Hunters and people just practicing don't need to swab in my opinion. If you have time and a need for the utmost accuracy swabbing is extraordinarily helpful.
I should have the absolute hunting machine with this gun. I'm proud of my fine purchase. It does great in the snow as well because it was snowing hard when I was shooting. That is one reliable gun.
Catch ya later cause I'm going to a friends til later tonight. Ask any questions you want. Happy New Year once again.
Heres your memory refreshment.. 245 powerbelts "sabots you call them" and 100 grains pyrodex RS.
Well, I shot the Apex and am much more pleased with myself and the gun than last time. I thought thatI was shooting 50 yards but when I counted it off just now it was 60. So, I got the bullet to strike EXACTLY dead on and 1- 1 1/2 inches high at that range. I swabbed between each shot while sighting. The first was a bit too farleft.I adjusted the sights and the next was too high and too right. I adjusted again and it was right where I wanted it but a bit right still. After thenext adjustment I got it absolutely perfect. I decided it was right where I wanted it and decided to test the accuracy levels without swabbing. My next shot was right by the other. The following four shots were all slowly moving further and further out.
After sight adjustmentI ended up with a 3 inch group. Again, this was without swabbing and I didn't get another to go in the same spot as my best one but they all came close.
The conclusion is that this gun is capable of great accuracy without a doubt. At 60 yards a 3 inch group is not great but I am positive I could have had them all touching if I had swabbed. I didn't though(swab), soI could test the difference.
Swabbing is neccessary for the absolute best accuracy but not mandatory until after 6 shots or so. Hunters and people just practicing don't need to swab in my opinion. If you have time and a need for the utmost accuracy swabbing is extraordinarily helpful.
I should have the absolute hunting machine with this gun. I'm proud of my fine purchase. It does great in the snow as well because it was snowing hard when I was shooting. That is one reliable gun.
Catch ya later cause I'm going to a friends til later tonight. Ask any questions you want. Happy New Year once again.
03-14-2007, 05:27 PM
#17
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,149
RE: Apex
I had off and on days with it. The point is that I could not get it to be CONSISTENT. Look up the word, Frontier. One day it shot decent and the next horribly. I NEVER got it to shoot even decent at 100 yards. To tell the truth, I puffed that gun up and made it seem better than it was in the first posts to make myself feel better. That's a fact, though you might not believe it. I did notpuff the Omega up because it worked the way it was supposed to and it was all truth.
I'll admit I got it shooting well at a point. That post was of my one good group at 50. Then I tried a hundred yards and gave it up the next time---remember???? I tried it at 100 yards the next session and could not hit the target in 6 shots. I went to 50 and it was on again.
I did not try a bullet ONLY at 50 yards. I always tested them at 100. I never once got them to shoot good from there and that was my reason for returning it. 50 yards was not the issue, Frontier. I tested it with every load at 100--with the gun sighted in at 50-- and never got good results. My post above was of it at 50 YARDS.
Show me a post whereI was happy at 100 yds with itand you will have proven yourself, FG.
A gun that cannot hit the target at 100 yards when it was sighted in 2 inches high at 50 with the same load is not worthy of admiration. That was my reasoning. You still cannot explain why I shoot 10 times better with the Omega.
I don't have time to find my posts. I'll leave that up to someone with nothing better to do.
I'll admit I got it shooting well at a point. That post was of my one good group at 50. Then I tried a hundred yards and gave it up the next time---remember???? I tried it at 100 yards the next session and could not hit the target in 6 shots. I went to 50 and it was on again.
I did not try a bullet ONLY at 50 yards. I always tested them at 100. I never once got them to shoot good from there and that was my reason for returning it. 50 yards was not the issue, Frontier. I tested it with every load at 100--with the gun sighted in at 50-- and never got good results. My post above was of it at 50 YARDS.
Show me a post whereI was happy at 100 yds with itand you will have proven yourself, FG.
A gun that cannot hit the target at 100 yards when it was sighted in 2 inches high at 50 with the same load is not worthy of admiration. That was my reasoning. You still cannot explain why I shoot 10 times better with the Omega.
I don't have time to find my posts. I'll leave that up to someone with nothing better to do.
03-14-2007, 05:40 PM
#18
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 5,180
RE: Apex
Like this? You had it goin with the XTP's but you did not do your part when it came to cleaning. When shooting sabots, using the cleaning jag with a wet patch does not clean out all of the plastic fouling. And you also said in your last post that you were shooting the same load, when it clearly shows you were now shooting the XTP's. Sabots do not shoot any where near the same as a powerbelt. I know, ive shot both in the same day and on the same target! End of topic after this. These two posts by you that you had written now will show the Apex users that you had great accuracy with the rifle but failed to do your part in proper cleaning and sight in. But atleast you got a 2" group @ 100 with the apex.... That IMO shows how much of an accurate rifle it is.
I finally got some bullets and powder and sighted in my Winchester Apex. I started at 30 yards and sighted it 2 inches high. That took about 10 shots, and thenI cleaned the barrel.ThenI went to 100 yards to see where it would impact. I got like a 2 inch group but they were all low.I worked on it a bit untilI thought it was right on. I shot twice and hit an inch apart right by the bullseye. By thenI was feeling pretty confident so I decided it was done. I kept shooting and after some more shots it started shooting erratically. They weren't on target at all. I had noticed that the bullets were extremely hard to load soI decided to clean the bore again. After that it shot great, but started flying erratic after a couplemore shots. I didn't clean it this time and noticed they were flying low again and left. I adjusted the sights and shot once. It was way off. By then I had 2 bullets left so I went to 50 yards. The first shot was way high and right. I adjusted and then shot again. This was about a half inch to the right of the bullseye.I was out of bullets butI moved the sights just a tad bit left. It should now be right on at 50 yards and right back where it was before.
I was shooting 240 grain TC XTP Mag sabots, 100 grains Pyrodex powder, and Winchester Primers with open sights. I can tell the gun is accurate because I shot some great groups but I seem to throw some erratic bullets occasionally. I believe this is either because of the dirty bore or me, though. How would you sight it in? Dead on at 50 yards? I think I'll actually get it an inch high at 50. This should be about right on at 100 I would guess. I'll have to buy more bullets.
The gun's very easy to load and clean but after about a dozen shots it gets super hard to start the bullet. I have the busted up, bloody knuckles to prove it(bullet starter slipping and bashing my hand on the muzzle).
Thanks for any insight you care to share and if you still want an Apex you can go and get one in ss/black for $200atCabela's.
I finally got some bullets and powder and sighted in my Winchester Apex. I started at 30 yards and sighted it 2 inches high. That took about 10 shots, and thenI cleaned the barrel.ThenI went to 100 yards to see where it would impact. I got like a 2 inch group but they were all low.I worked on it a bit untilI thought it was right on. I shot twice and hit an inch apart right by the bullseye. By thenI was feeling pretty confident so I decided it was done. I kept shooting and after some more shots it started shooting erratically. They weren't on target at all. I had noticed that the bullets were extremely hard to load soI decided to clean the bore again. After that it shot great, but started flying erratic after a couplemore shots. I didn't clean it this time and noticed they were flying low again and left. I adjusted the sights and shot once. It was way off. By then I had 2 bullets left so I went to 50 yards. The first shot was way high and right. I adjusted and then shot again. This was about a half inch to the right of the bullseye.I was out of bullets butI moved the sights just a tad bit left. It should now be right on at 50 yards and right back where it was before.
I was shooting 240 grain TC XTP Mag sabots, 100 grains Pyrodex powder, and Winchester Primers with open sights. I can tell the gun is accurate because I shot some great groups but I seem to throw some erratic bullets occasionally. I believe this is either because of the dirty bore or me, though. How would you sight it in? Dead on at 50 yards? I think I'll actually get it an inch high at 50. This should be about right on at 100 I would guess. I'll have to buy more bullets.
The gun's very easy to load and clean but after about a dozen shots it gets super hard to start the bullet. I have the busted up, bloody knuckles to prove it(bullet starter slipping and bashing my hand on the muzzle).
Thanks for any insight you care to share and if you still want an Apex you can go and get one in ss/black for $200atCabela's.