yeoman

Nice shooting Conicaloader! Did you swab between shots?

"Roundball" brings up some good points. Real traditionalists are concerned about multiple advantages gained by inlines.

I'm glad I don't have a dog in that hunt. Not yet anyway.

sabotloader

roundball

Thank you roundball... you said exactly what I beleive also. I know there are a lot of traditionalists upset with what I call modern inlines, but here in Idaho under the old rules - modern inlines were not allowed during a ML hunt anyway, no scopes, no 209's, open breech, open sights - so Idaho had pretty much equalized out the two guns - but all of a sudden the inline became the target even though the advantages of an inline werepretty much neutralized.

I think the real problem came when more and more people pushed to allow the "modern" ML in the field during the ML hunt. I also agree I would like to see a modern ML season, here in Idaho we would call it a "short range" season that would allow the modern ML. But some how someway, and mostly the fault of the gun builders advertising, people assumed that a modern ML is as good as a centerfire - that is just not true... You still have some hefty limitations that a modern centerfire does not have. Any way to stop all the pushing the commission just decide to get rid of the problem totally, the n maybe we would be happy with what had and are losing...

politics and $$$ rule...

goatbrother

The presure is still on in Idaho. At the F&G open house Thrusday evening in Lewiston everyone I overheard talking to the F&G agents were all complaining about the new MZ rules. Except for one ole guy who was trying to tell F&G that an inline gun has a lock time just as fast as a centerfire. I had to butt in, no way that an inline hammer that weights 10-20 times as much as a centerfire fireing pin can travel as fast, simple physics. A couple local hunting groups are also voiceing opposition to the new MZ regulations.

roundball

I thinkwhen somebodycomplains about a degree of detail like "lock time"they'resort ofreaching or 'piling on' if you ask me...that would be like a pro-inline user complaining about somebody using a TC Hawken Flintlock because it has a coil spring inside instead of a leaf spring.

As I said, IMO, let the modern rifle be used...just everybodyneeds to use the older technology components in them and the playing field will be level enough as far as I'm concerned.

sabotloader

goatbrother

One of my communications with Brad Compton was, why were pivoting hammer inlines OK and plunger types were not. His coment was that the lock time time was greater than the pivoting hammer... My comment back was if you have one of the new TC locks in your side hammer the lock time there might be equal to any plunger. The new TC lock I puton this Renegade when I rebuilt it is really short, compact and quick.On this lock 1/2 just barely clears the cap and on fullcock the hammer is only 5/8" away from the top of the nipple, it does not travel very far at all when it falls.

Roundball is correct "it is reaching...."

Remember Colorado did this same thing in 1977 and it was reversed in 1978.

Idaho had the perfect vehicle with the regular ML season and the Primative season... but - I do not what else to say...

Underclocked

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/201998/tp/1/ read replies

cascadedad

Nice observation UC, it does seems like somebody is talking out of both sides of his mouth. [:'(]


Also in that thread,
Blackfoot Said:
Awesome! Now if more states would do this things would get less crowded.

[/align]
Yup, this is what it is ALL about. Someone always slips up in these threads and is really honest.


[/align]

roundball

To "underclocked" and "cascaded"...you both have a history of trying to provoke arguementsusing your favoritetacticofstrippingsomething out of context and referencing itit an attempt to present a distorted view.
Or it may well be that you simply have areading & comprehension problem...in which case you should just read things over and over, and not try to forumulate consciousthoughts.

WhatIsaid in this thread abovestands solid:
"My opinion (and I believe that of most others) hasbeen centered around all the items ofmodern advantage that are 99.999% of the time associated with inlines, thatprovide long range and/or performance enhancements".

If you can't comprehend that I'll explain...it means that generally speaking the term "inline"refers tomodern high performance scoped long range rifles with borderline centerfire performance. Virtually no one buys and uses an inline without a scope. Thatisthe context that I and most people refer to an inline...when the averageperson hears the term "inline" they picture a "scoped rifle" in their mind.I'm entitled to my opinion that scopes have no place in what was a seasonintended for old style muzzleloaders.The context of that other thread is applaudingIdaho's effortto eliminate "inlines"fromwhat was clearly intended as an original style ML season...and that's a good thingbecause it usually means they'reeliminating the "scopes" from the original seasons.

The thread that you reference in an attempt to provoke an arguement was an excellent exampleof a state stepping up to that technology issue and I, as well as others,are delighted to see Idaho take steps to restore seasons to their original intent and purpose...to me the primaryorder of business is to getthe scopes out.

I personally hope every state in the country does that and and in that context I'll applaud the next state that follows Idaho's direction just as I did in the thread you reference...will do ittomorrow if given the chance, and the next day...so if you see me do that in the future, try to remember and comprehend the big pictutre.

And I don't believe you'll ever find a post of mine where I saidscopes are fine butinline rifles themselves should not be allowed...go busy yourselves searching the Internet and if you find I've made that statementjusttrot it right on out here.

Note: every freshman psychologystudent knows when peopleresort to tactics like you've just failed to execute, you've already lost...when peoplehave a legitimate point of view to discuss like an intelligent adult, they will...when theydon't, they resort to yourtactics.

I know it's hard for some people to maintaingood comprehension levels on major issuessuch as these, andanytime I can help you better understand them let me know and I'll be glad to set you straight again.

In the meantime,just keeprepeating this to yourselves:
Inlines = scopes, no scopes in ML seasons;
Inlines = scopes, no scopes in ML seasons;
Inlines = scopes, no scopes in ML seasons;
Inlines = scopes, no scopes in ML seasons;
etc

Underclocked

I'm not trying to provoke an argument. Just showing two sides of the same coin. I do comprehend your tactics quite well.

sabotloader

roundballand others...

The real point that is being missed here is that Idaho already had in place the avenues to solve the problems. Idaho Fish and Game through misbeliefs and false information were lead down a path that was popular with the people that that supported it. Political people often respond to people with some influence and often with money. The traditional groups in Idaho and around the country are vocal, often retired, with time, and a few dollors on their side. Believe it or not I believe the "time" aspect is the biggest aspect, they can attend the meetings and push their agenda.

In the past, and you almost have to live here and hunt to understand Idaho's hunting rules, the rules allowed a regular ML season, a Traditional season, and something called a short range season - not often used but it was here. I live here and have lived here all my life and the rules are confusing but they are in place. Idaho has the ability to do what it needs todo with in the current regulations if they chose to do so. I personally have know problem with the fact that in southern Idaho there are and have been Traditional ML hunts and if Traditional people want Traditional hunts in Northern Idaho let them get them. Out units are large enough and can easily be divided to allow both and because of this we could also allow "short range weapons" such as shotguns and "modern" ML's a chance to get in the field also. The fact is the push to eliminate everything but "traditional" guns was the push until it was suggested and now the push it back the other direction and it may even go farther than what it was before. Politically majority speaks and no matter matter how you count it most sporting goods dealers around Idaho report greater than3-1 sales of inlines vs traditionals. The state reports the number of ML hunters has swollen from a few hundred to the 20 thousands and in those thousdans the prevelant weapon is the inline. By waking this group of people the traditionalists have acutally done us a favor....

Idaho may be a limited ML hunt this years because it is so hard to change government especially when everything needs to be published by April, but I would predict in the 2008 you will see a huge change swinging it all back to more like the national average and gaining ground for modern inline use. It might be expensive, we will all pay for it but it will be there. The public meeting around the state recently have really been a problem for the IF&G to conduct any business other than trying to tame arguments.

So in effect while roundball's arguments were the accepted way in Idaho in the past - it will reverse with this new pressure being applied by a large number of Idaho residents... just wish it would happen this season.