On the ability of the 295 PB to penetrate
02-26-2007, 06:25 PM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Posts: 1,470
RE: On the ability of the 295 PB to penetrate
ORIGINAL: gleason.chapman
Phil,
How did you reach that conclusion? When you say OUTPERFORM, what do you mean terminal performance? Penetration? Expansion? I believe the best bullet is a pass thru (so there is an exit wound, large hole) . . .
ORIGINAL: Pglasgow
Take a all lead projectile, (PB, GP conical, BS conical, or a patched round ball), for a given energy, at a velocity ideal for the projectile, and it will OUTPERFORM a jacketed bullet of equivalent impact energy. I am totally convinced of this.
Take a all lead projectile, (PB, GP conical, BS conical, or a patched round ball), for a given energy, at a velocity ideal for the projectile, and it will OUTPERFORM a jacketed bullet of equivalent impact energy. I am totally convinced of this.
How did you reach that conclusion? When you say OUTPERFORM, what do you mean terminal performance? Penetration? Expansion? I believe the best bullet is a pass thru (so there is an exit wound, large hole) . . .
I mean that it will dissipate a greater proportion of it's energy into wounding leading to better terminal performance, literally killing better and faster.
This is not to say that one can not use a jacketed bullet at greater impact energy and get better wounding. I really don't know. It is complex as greater energy for lighter jacketed bullets generally mean greater velocity and a larger proportion of energy dissipated near the surface at thePOI. From my own experience, full bore hollowpoint bullets of 385 grain weight are deer killing demons which knock the snot out of deer. Based the experience of others who I trust, patched roundballs are deer killing demons also. They both are, (as are saboted jacket bullets), capable of cleanly killing deer.
02-26-2007, 06:38 PM
#22
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: On the ability of the 295 PB to penetrate
Pglasgow
I am not a PB user, do not intend to be ever again, once was enough but I will tell you the answer here...
I guarantee you a saboted copper jacketed bullets can and do kill deer and elk just fine.
I am not a PB user, do not intend to be ever again, once was enough but I will tell you the answer here...
Based the experience of others who I trust, patched roundballs are deer killing demons also. They both are, (as are saboted jacket bullets), capable of cleanly killing deer.
02-26-2007, 07:13 PM
#23
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 426
RE: On the ability of the 295 PB to penetrate
Guys, I am relatively new here but truly don't understand all the debate. Chosen firearm, hunting preference, etc. makesMLs such and individual experience.
I think Pglasgow's chart (which was a big help to me) slmply put shows the powerbelt will performwith the right load. Check the testerone at the gate(Tim the Toolman Taylor syndrome) test at 70,80g of load and see what happens.
When I decided on getting my OptimaI obtained advise from a well respected local shooter to start with 245 powerbelt and 50g pf triple 7. I remember thinking thegun was rated at 150. Hejust shook his had and told me to start with the above load and it would not take much more than that along with a placed shot to get the job done.
Unfortunately, since I bought the gun I have only been out twice. 18" of snow and 2 ice storms..... its killing me.As soon as I can, I will be shooting the lighter load and see what happens.
I do enjoy this site and am learning a lot. Thanks to all.
I think Pglasgow's chart (which was a big help to me) slmply put shows the powerbelt will performwith the right load. Check the testerone at the gate(Tim the Toolman Taylor syndrome) test at 70,80g of load and see what happens.
When I decided on getting my OptimaI obtained advise from a well respected local shooter to start with 245 powerbelt and 50g pf triple 7. I remember thinking thegun was rated at 150. Hejust shook his had and told me to start with the above load and it would not take much more than that along with a placed shot to get the job done.
Unfortunately, since I bought the gun I have only been out twice. 18" of snow and 2 ice storms..... its killing me.As soon as I can, I will be shooting the lighter load and see what happens.
I do enjoy this site and am learning a lot. Thanks to all.
02-26-2007, 07:18 PM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: On the ability of the 295 PB to penetrate
ORIGINAL: Pglasgow
From my own experience, full bore hollowpoint bullets of 385 grain weight are deer killing demons which knock the snot out of deer.
From my own experience, full bore hollowpoint bullets of 385 grain weight are deer killing demons which knock the snot out of deer.
Chap
02-26-2007, 07:39 PM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: On the ability of the 295 PB to penetrate
ORIGINAL: oldrookie
Guys, I am relatively new here but truly don't understand all the debate. Chosen firearm, hunting preference, etc. makesMLs such and individual experience.
Guys, I am relatively new here but truly don't understand all the debate. Chosen firearm, hunting preference, etc. makesMLs such and individual experience.
http://www.the-gleasons.com/powerbelt_page.htm to warn rookies and old rookies about PB bullets fragmenting issues. Phil put up a thread about them penetrating as good as a PRB. I think they are inferior bullets for MLers, Phil thinks they have their place.I think that sums it up. I have learned:
1) if you shoot them at1300 fps and best around 1200 fps they go thru a deer. I thought they pancaked at all velocieies.
2) if you push them with150g of power theywill blow up.
3)I am trying to grapple with what is the right combination of expansion and penetration for Terminal Performance.
4) Wound Channel is important, too big a splash leads to too little energy to shoot thru the deer.
Amoung the questionsI have are:
1) expansion is important but how important is expansion vs shoot thru--Shockwaves tend to not expand that much and shoot thru, with about the same size hole as entrance hole. Is that goodor bad? I think it is bad, but I am not sure why.
2) Expansion is important but opening up1 inch into theanimal is too fast causing "splash" from displaced flesh too close to the surface. PBdo this pretty often. Is it because they are pushed too fast or design of thebullet to be basically a 2 pellet ML bullet max.
Chap Gleason
02-26-2007, 07:42 PM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: On the ability of the 295 PB to penetrate
ORIGINAL: frontier gander
535 PRB = .535 diameter. Which is .54cal i think? I only shoot .50's so im a little lost after that.
535 PRB = .535 diameter. Which is .54cal i think? I only shoot .50's so im a little lost after that.
02-26-2007, 07:43 PM
#27
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: On the ability of the 295 PB to penetrate
ORIGINAL: gleason.chapman
Why is the weight 385g, why not 300g, which is what I believe it is for Jacket HP bullets? Why the greater weight to get the performance?
Chap
ORIGINAL: Pglasgow
From my own experience, full bore hollowpoint bullets of 385 grain weight are deer killing demons which knock the snot out of deer.
From my own experience, full bore hollowpoint bullets of 385 grain weight are deer killing demons which knock the snot out of deer.
Chap
Besides Maxis and one roundball, the 385 GP is all I have ever shot at deer. That's it. So I can speak of the virtues of both the 385 GP and my home cast maxiballs. The 385's were noticeably more effective.
Sabotloader,
I don't recall ever excluding saboted jacketed bullets. Best I can tell from what I wrote, which is archived right in the quote of your post, saboted jacketed bullets are to be included in the list of projectiles which can cleanly kill deer.
02-26-2007, 07:55 PM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: On the ability of the 295 PB to penetrate
ORIGINAL: oldrookie
I think Pglasgow's chart (which was a big help to me) slmply put shows the powerbelt will performwith the right load.
I think Pglasgow's chart (which was a big help to me) slmply put shows the powerbelt will performwith the right load.
02-26-2007, 07:56 PM
#29
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 5,180
RE: On the ability of the 295 PB to penetrate
150 grainsof powder and a 245 or 295 grain powerbelt will NOT blow up with a lung shot. It may on a shoulder shot but i do not take those kind of shots and never will.
150 grains loose pyrodex rs- 295 aerotip powerbelt - 148 yard shot on mule deer doe - Entered cleanly and exited with a 1" clean hole. Slid 4 feet and was dead.
120 grains loose pyrodex rs- 245 hollow point powerbelt- 146 yard shot, neckshot, dead deer and entered right infront of the neck/chest , exited just infront of the shoulder area.
My brothers load:
90 grains RS, 295 aerotip, 100 yards, high spine shot that put it down temporarily put it down until she got her back inplace, stood up, #2 shot with the same load went through both lungs and exited, deer dropped dead in its tracks.
Dads deer:
90 grains rs, 295 aerotip, bullet hit the deer in the collar bone, exited in the lower chest/neck area, dead deer. Dang tasty one too!
I like lung shots, it puts them down a lot faster, bleeds them out and makes gutting a lot cleaner. Why take a chance putting a bullet through the shoulder when a lung shot is guaranteed to put it down a lot faster?
Powerbelts are capable of taking game with 150 grains of powder with the right shots.
150 grains loose pyrodex rs- 295 aerotip powerbelt - 148 yard shot on mule deer doe - Entered cleanly and exited with a 1" clean hole. Slid 4 feet and was dead.
120 grains loose pyrodex rs- 245 hollow point powerbelt- 146 yard shot, neckshot, dead deer and entered right infront of the neck/chest , exited just infront of the shoulder area.
My brothers load:
90 grains RS, 295 aerotip, 100 yards, high spine shot that put it down temporarily put it down until she got her back inplace, stood up, #2 shot with the same load went through both lungs and exited, deer dropped dead in its tracks.
Dads deer:
90 grains rs, 295 aerotip, bullet hit the deer in the collar bone, exited in the lower chest/neck area, dead deer. Dang tasty one too!
I like lung shots, it puts them down a lot faster, bleeds them out and makes gutting a lot cleaner. Why take a chance putting a bullet through the shoulder when a lung shot is guaranteed to put it down a lot faster?
Powerbelts are capable of taking game with 150 grains of powder with the right shots.
02-26-2007, 08:06 PM
#30
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 426
RE: On the ability of the 295 PB to penetrate
ORIGINAL: gleason.chapman
The debate is that I placed a new PB page up here:
http://www.the-gleasons.com/powerbelt_page.htm to warn rookies and old rookies about PB bullets fragmenting issues. Phil put up a thread about them penetrating as good as a PRB. I think they are inferior bullets for MLers, Phil thinks they have their place.I think that sums it up. I have learned:
1) if you shoot them at1300 fps and best around 1200 fps they go thru a deer. I thought they pancaked at all velocieies.
2) if you push them with150g of power theywill blow up.
3)I am trying to grapple with what is the right combination of expansion and penetration for Terminal Performance.
4) Wound Channel is important, too big a splash leads to too little energy to shoot thru the deer.
Amoung the questionsI have are:
1) expansion is important but how important is expansion vs shoot thru--Shockwaves tend to not expand that much and shoot thru, with about the same size hole as entrance hole. Is that goodor bad? I think it is bad, but I am not sure why.
2) Expansion is important but opening up1 inch into theanimal is too fast causing "splash" from displaced flesh too close to the surface. PBdo this pretty often. Is it because they are pushed too fast or design of thebullet to be basically a 2 pellet ML bullet max.
Chap Gleason
ORIGINAL: oldrookie
Guys, I am relatively new here but truly don't understand all the debate. Chosen firearm, hunting preference, etc. makesMLs such and individual experience.
Guys, I am relatively new here but truly don't understand all the debate. Chosen firearm, hunting preference, etc. makesMLs such and individual experience.
http://www.the-gleasons.com/powerbelt_page.htm to warn rookies and old rookies about PB bullets fragmenting issues. Phil put up a thread about them penetrating as good as a PRB. I think they are inferior bullets for MLers, Phil thinks they have their place.I think that sums it up. I have learned:
1) if you shoot them at1300 fps and best around 1200 fps they go thru a deer. I thought they pancaked at all velocieies.
2) if you push them with150g of power theywill blow up.
3)I am trying to grapple with what is the right combination of expansion and penetration for Terminal Performance.
4) Wound Channel is important, too big a splash leads to too little energy to shoot thru the deer.
Amoung the questionsI have are:
1) expansion is important but how important is expansion vs shoot thru--Shockwaves tend to not expand that much and shoot thru, with about the same size hole as entrance hole. Is that goodor bad? I think it is bad, but I am not sure why.
2) Expansion is important but opening up1 inch into theanimal is too fast causing "splash" from displaced flesh too close to the surface. PBdo this pretty often. Is it because they are pushed too fast or design of thebullet to be basically a 2 pellet ML bullet max.
Chap Gleason