Thin sabots
01-24-2007, 07:14 AM
#21
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Thin sabots
yeoman
No you are probably right... when I have done it I used a wet patch so it would tighten up a bit ran it up and down in the bore a little bit to shape the patch to the grooves and lands - then sat it on the bottom and did thetest.
Anyway - I am going to work this morning - shooting the conicals again this afternoon from the Hawken if the weather allows and this evening I'll round up some materials...
No you are probably right... when I have done it I used a wet patch so it would tighten up a bit ran it up and down in the bore a little bit to shape the patch to the grooves and lands - then sat it on the bottom and did thetest.
Anyway - I am going to work this morning - shooting the conicals again this afternoon from the Hawken if the weather allows and this evening I'll round up some materials...
01-24-2007, 07:17 AM
#22
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western OK
Posts: 856
RE: Thin sabots
"Easy loading means more possible blowby. You want it to be tight."
You may be right. My Encore is very hard to load but it is also very accurate. Can get one inch three shot groups with it when i am up to it.Load is 90 grains of Jim Shockey Gold, a Winchestershotgun primer and250 grain SST bullet.
You may be right. My Encore is very hard to load but it is also very accurate. Can get one inch three shot groups with it when i am up to it.Load is 90 grains of Jim Shockey Gold, a Winchestershotgun primer and250 grain SST bullet.
01-24-2007, 07:28 AM
#23
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Thin sabots
alsaqr
It needs to be snug - but not tight - you should be able to push it down with one hand andI do the same with the Omega, the Remingtons and certainly the White using easy sliding sabots. The whole thing obturateswhen you shoot it anyway and creates the gas seal.
It needs to be snug - but not tight - you should be able to push it down with one hand andI do the same with the Omega, the Remingtons and certainly the White using easy sliding sabots. The whole thing obturateswhen you shoot it anyway and creates the gas seal.
01-24-2007, 09:23 AM
#24
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
RE: Thin sabots
I tried all sizes in two of my inlines The System one likes the older thicker ones the Omega will shoot them but they are hard to load the HPH24 in the Omega not only load smooth and easily compare to the 12 and shoot just a bit tighter groups with a lot less flyers which were proably coming from distorted bullets, the crush ribs load real easy and shoot all over the place. My friend at the range had an awful time loading his Savage or getting under 3 inches and I gave him the crushribs to try and the load snug but smooth and shoot 1.25 inch groups.
In conclusion I would say you can be to tight or to loose if there is any doubt try them, the gun will let you know what it needs by the way it shoots. Lee
In conclusion I would say you can be to tight or to loose if there is any doubt try them, the gun will let you know what it needs by the way it shoots. Lee
01-24-2007, 09:24 AM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Thin sabots
ORIGINAL: sabotloader
bigcountry
If you e-mail Del Ramsey @ mmp and ask the same question I am sure he will confirm for you in most instances...
In the old days of older plastic sabots and the days when the lands and grooves of the bore were deep - or if you still have a gun with deep grooves you would be correct, but since everyone went to the shallow grooves and the advent of polymere which will conform easily to those grooves - loading is an easy task...
TC Super Glides sabots (actually contracted to and made by MMP) are areally good example of this new technology. I have not used them myself but they were built for TC to go down their barrels easily...
bigcountry
If you e-mail Del Ramsey @ mmp and ask the same question I am sure he will confirm for you in most instances...
In the old days of older plastic sabots and the days when the lands and grooves of the bore were deep - or if you still have a gun with deep grooves you would be correct, but since everyone went to the shallow grooves and the advent of polymere which will conform easily to those grooves - loading is an easy task...
TC Super Glides sabots (actually contracted to and made by MMP) are areally good example of this new technology. I have not used them myself but they were built for TC to go down their barrels easily...
Even with super tight setups, I still have better results with a subbase.
01-24-2007, 05:21 PM
#26
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 426
RE: Thin sabots
ORIGINAL: sabotloader
yeoman
Actually that really is not that difficult...
What rifle, how old is it, what caliber is the bore, and what size bullet do you want to shoot (44 cal or 45 cal)? What brand/make sabots do you have now that are not working... have you ever had any that did work well for you.
I can give you a good idea - you would not believe the size of my sabot collection...
The ultimate answer might lie with Connie at MMP Sabots she catalogs what sabot fits what rifle with bullet for each of their sabots...
I can even send you a sample of different kinds and sizes, I have done that in the past on a few occasions... Lot of people are not located near a place they can run down town and get a sample..
yeoman
Actually that really is not that difficult...
What rifle, how old is it, what caliber is the bore, and what size bullet do you want to shoot (44 cal or 45 cal)? What brand/make sabots do you have now that are not working... have you ever had any that did work well for you.
I can give you a good idea - you would not believe the size of my sabot collection...
The ultimate answer might lie with Connie at MMP Sabots she catalogs what sabot fits what rifle with bullet for each of their sabots...
I can even send you a sample of different kinds and sizes, I have done that in the past on a few occasions... Lot of people are not located near a place they can run down town and get a sample..
01-24-2007, 05:51 PM
#27
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Thin sabots
oldrookie
Yes, three different sized black sabots.
From everything I have read the new BPI/CVA barrels are tight - so you can rule out the HPH-12. Probably the HPH-24 will work and I am sure the HPH-3p-EZ will work. Another sabot that will work for you is the Harvester 'crush rib." The bullets you are suggesting a .452 (45 cal)
If I were you I would order a package of each from MMP and decide which one works the best for you.. If you have shot the barrel quite a bit already the 24's will do the job.
www.mmpsabots.com
You will probably get Connie on the phone although every once in awhile you can get Del himself...
Good luck - let me know how things work for you...
Yes, three different sized black sabots.
From everything I have read the new BPI/CVA barrels are tight - so you can rule out the HPH-12. Probably the HPH-24 will work and I am sure the HPH-3p-EZ will work. Another sabot that will work for you is the Harvester 'crush rib." The bullets you are suggesting a .452 (45 cal)
If I were you I would order a package of each from MMP and decide which one works the best for you.. If you have shot the barrel quite a bit already the 24's will do the job.
www.mmpsabots.com
You will probably get Connie on the phone although every once in awhile you can get Del himself...
Good luck - let me know how things work for you...
01-25-2007, 11:03 AM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Slower Lower Delaware 1st State
Posts: 1,776
RE: Thin sabots
I have a Knight .45 Disc.It is a very tight load with any bullet except Powerbelt(Obviously).The 2nd round is a bear to load.I often use Power Belt as my 2nd load.It's groups are adequate but not close to the Hornady or Precision Dead Centers I currently use.
I s/w with Knight shortly after buying the gun re the issue of loading.
I was told in no uncertain terms these guns were designed for a TIGHT fit.That is why they are so accurate.The gun produces exceptional groups.
S/W other Knight users in the field who claim the same extremely tight fit but excellant groups ensue.
Having said that I would like to try the 3p,but haven't been able to find any for .45.
I s/w with Knight shortly after buying the gun re the issue of loading.
I was told in no uncertain terms these guns were designed for a TIGHT fit.That is why they are so accurate.The gun produces exceptional groups.
S/W other Knight users in the field who claim the same extremely tight fit but excellant groups ensue.
Having said that I would like to try the 3p,but haven't been able to find any for .45.
01-25-2007, 07:58 PM
#29
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Thin sabots
AJ52
AJ, I do not have a Knight to compare to, if Wolfhound gets on here he can tell you for sure - he has been shooting them for years and i believe he is using MMP sabots...
What I can tell you is I have a new Green Mountain SS barrel, Knight owns Green Mountain and uses GM barrels in their guns. I load HPH-24 really slick and it shoots great, actually better than great - Cayugad has the same barrel on one of his Renegades so he can tell you what he uses. The new GM barrels are tighter than the older Knights but the load sabots fine. The 3p and the "crush rib" should go down just fine, but I think you will like the 24 also.
Knight gave you an easy answer.... Are you shooting 150 grain loads? PM Wolfhound---- and see what he is doing...
AJ, I do not have a Knight to compare to, if Wolfhound gets on here he can tell you for sure - he has been shooting them for years and i believe he is using MMP sabots...
What I can tell you is I have a new Green Mountain SS barrel, Knight owns Green Mountain and uses GM barrels in their guns. I load HPH-24 really slick and it shoots great, actually better than great - Cayugad has the same barrel on one of his Renegades so he can tell you what he uses. The new GM barrels are tighter than the older Knights but the load sabots fine. The 3p and the "crush rib" should go down just fine, but I think you will like the 24 also.
Knight gave you an easy answer.... Are you shooting 150 grain loads? PM Wolfhound---- and see what he is doing...
01-26-2007, 07:27 AM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Slower Lower Delaware 1st State
Posts: 1,776
RE: Thin sabots
My Knight is 6-7 yrs old.So the new GM barrels are tighter - Wow.I guess mine is loose compared to the new ones.I haven't been able to find a 3p for .45.
Using 110gr of FFF APP.
I just don't believe Knight was giving me an "Easy Answer" when we had a 20 minute discussion on this weapon 6-7 yrs ago. I've heard and seen same thing from other Knight .45 and .50 users - Very Tight - but Very Accurate.
Using 110gr of FFF APP.
I just don't believe Knight was giving me an "Easy Answer" when we had a 20 minute discussion on this weapon 6-7 yrs ago. I've heard and seen same thing from other Knight .45 and .50 users - Very Tight - but Very Accurate.