Pglasgow

Were you shooting roundball? I've found also that pyro P and PRB can be loaded without swabbing and without losing accuracy. Same with my small game PRB load. Even so, Maxiballs and GP conicals were not as forgiving in the same rifle (.50 T/C Hawken)and required swabbing between shots.

I hadsuccess with 245 and 270 ballets and pyro P without swabbing in the Stainless sidekick I once owned. I've yet to try it in my Apex. Since I still have some Pyro, I'll try it in the Apex and post the results.

outdoorslover

No, I only shoot sabots. The Apex is picky. In my old gun it didn't seem to make a difference. I could shoot any load and never swab and it would shoot the same every time---at least it seemed like it--maybe I never noticed the difference. Now thatI think of it, it is just as hard to load though. Iget bloody knuckles from loading that gun too. Keep me posted and I'll do the same.

gleason.chapman

When I am at the range I clean between each shot with 2 patches of Rusty Duck and follow it up with 1 dry patch then 1 patch of bore butter. When I am in the field and I shoot and reload, I swab with 2 patches of borebutter, this maintains accuracy and bullets are easy to seat, even in the field. I have a cleaning jag on my inlines and I carry one with my FL.

I started doing this after I cut my knuckles on my front sight. I have NEVER had to "quick load" for a 2nd shot with a muzzie for a 2nd shot at a deer. Most of my shots are 30 to 60 yards, a few a 100 and when they are hit they usually are down for the count. I have killed two deer at the same time with my muzzie, but I just put the bullet down a dirty barrel in this situation (the shot is usually only 50 yards). I now shoot the thin Crushed Rib sabots from Harvester with Nosler Partition 300g. Crushed Rib sabots are only $4.99 for 50 at MidSouth Shooter Supply. Start thinking this is a 1 shot rifle, accuracy is important and I don't need a fast 2nd. Once you "get your mind right", ease of loading comes from the clean rifle barrel. You have to figure if I have to pound the bullet down the rifle to seat it what is it doing to bullet accuracy when shooting it? It is harder to shoot, therefore less velocity, therefore lower on the target, therefore you miss the deer or worst yet wound it. So I recommend to clean between every shot, even when in the field. Compare a bore butter clean with a Cleaning solvent clean, there is more on fouling on the solvent, butthe bore butter does a pretty good job expecially if you go up and down 2x with each of two patches.To further clean, you can turn the bore butter patch over, you won't get 100% with this method, but if you take your breach plug out and inspect the rifle after a two bore butter field clean, it is pretty clean. That is my wisdom in this matter.Best wishes with your new rifle.
Chap Gleason Va

outdoorslover

Cleaning in the field sounds totally unrealistic to me. WhenI shoot a deerI immediately reload and decide on my next course of action. I don't think I'd ever take more than two shots at a deer and positively never more than five soI shouldn't ever have a problem. I've never noticed a decrease inaccuracy without swabbing in 5 shots. Anything more than that seems to be the problem. I definetely notice it if I don't swab in 10 but I'm always too lazy to spend the time on it. To tell you the truthI haven't ever sighted in a muzzleloader. My old one came sighted in dead on. I do realize that in order to get the gun accurate to it's full capabilities you have to swab but I don't think it's mandatory with each and every shot.You're absolutely right when you say that muzzleloading is a one shot thing though, so it is mandatory to clean the bore every shot when sighting it in. The only shot that will matter is the first one with the CLEAN bore. So thanks for all the help. I was lazy and didn't want to go to the full extent of accuracy and that was a mistake.

Pglasgow

Not needing to swab is great. But one of the reasons I like toin the field (as well as the range)is so that I don't have trouble seating a followup shot if I need one. An improperly seated projectile will not accurately print. Trying to seat a difficult projectile can be noisy and time consuming in and of itself. Something I've done,is tokeep patches handy in a pocket. If I see game to shoot, I put one in my mouth to moisten it while I prepare to take the shot, its handy immediately upon firing to swab with. Another thing i've done, ie this past elk season, is to have a followup projectile which loads easily over fouling, i.e. the BB Ballet. The point of impact through 80 yards was close enough to the load for the first shotthere was no reason to sweat it.

Even so, in spite of all my preparations for a second shot, I still have never been afforded the opportunity for a second shot where it would have actually changed the outcome of the hunt.

teachhunt

I like the idea of the bore butter swabbing. There's nothing more frustrating than having a gun sighted in for a few shots and then have it perform erratically when it counts. I too feel that the second shot is rarely needed unless for a close range kill shot. But then again 2 shots seems to bethe leastwe can expect from these Apexes without having to clean the bore. I know I'll be setting myself up with field cleaning supplies before tomorrow's hunt. Now I'm off to sight my Apex in.

frontier gander

We cant help you with your laziness and problem with not being able to take in other peoples advice but with my rifles, i fire 2 shots and then use a wet patch and run it down the barrel a few times to break down the fouling and then a couple dry patches. I like to fire 2 shots, 1 to hit the target and the second shot to see where that next shot goes. If you're not going to do your part and swab every few shots, theres nothing else we can do for you. If you dont like cleaning the bore to get the best accuracy you can, i'd suggest you sell me that apex, buy yourself a centerfire rifle and do away with muzzleloaders. Personally, being able to get 5 shots down the bore and retain accuracy is amazing. There are a lot of guys who cant even get a second shot down without having to swab. And you mentioned after 12 shots it wouldnt even pattern? Now you see the reason to run a wet patch down the bore every 3-4 shots. As soon as you see the groups opening, you need to pull your cleaning matrial out.

If you'd like to sell it to me, please pm me with your paypal email address, i'll send you $180 + i'll email you my cabelas $20 off purchase code and you can buy a different muzzleloader. Thats $200 total.

outdoorslover

Yes, I certainly will swab now. It never hit me that it could throw your bullets that far off--like up to a foot. I thought the difference was an inch or two at worst.

Sorry, you'll have to find an Apex elsewhere. I fell in love with mine. [8D][:-]

outdoorslover

Thanks for the advice by the way. It is helpful and appreciated.

Pglasgow

Dang, Jon, I wish you had let me reserve you one when they were available. Keep an eye the website. Some may be cancelled or returned or even in a cart not yet purchased. You may get one after all.