Going,Going,GONE! T/C SOLD TO Smith & Wesson
12-19-2006, 01:06 PM
#21
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Going,Going,GONE! T/C SOLD TO Smith & Wesson
FG
Can not answer your question... the two people that sent theirs in from here they were quite happy with the triggers the guns came back with + they were really happy with the turn around time...
Think about it - how many trigger assemblies do you think TC buys from somebody for their guns... These a more or less a mass produced object thay are not individually hand crafted - they are built on a line and in America - do really think every trigger off that line is the best one? Quality control will miss some and some will get into the guns you and I buy. But with TC's warranty who cares send it - they will make right.
How many products in your possession are perfect and came perfect from the factory or the warehouse - Every maunfacturer tries to do that even Ford - even your GM company but does it happen?
Can not answer your question... the two people that sent theirs in from here they were quite happy with the triggers the guns came back with + they were really happy with the turn around time...
Think about it - how many trigger assemblies do you think TC buys from somebody for their guns... These a more or less a mass produced object thay are not individually hand crafted - they are built on a line and in America - do really think every trigger off that line is the best one? Quality control will miss some and some will get into the guns you and I buy. But with TC's warranty who cares send it - they will make right.
How many products in your possession are perfect and came perfect from the factory or the warehouse - Every maunfacturer tries to do that even Ford - even your GM company but does it happen?
12-19-2006, 01:07 PM
#22
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western OK
Posts: 856
RE: Going,Going,GONE! T/C SOLD TO Smith & Wesson
Unfortunately for gun makers, two pound triggers bring lawsuits. That is why most guns made today have horribly stiff triggers- especially handguns.
It is rather simple: A stoned Joe Sixpakhas a negligent discharge with his 1.5 pound trigger Encoreand blows away his life long friend, Bubba. Joe is going to sue TC. Bubba's family is going to sue TC.
It is rather simple: A stoned Joe Sixpakhas a negligent discharge with his 1.5 pound trigger Encoreand blows away his life long friend, Bubba. Joe is going to sue TC. Bubba's family is going to sue TC.
12-19-2006, 01:16 PM
#23
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Going,Going,GONE! T/C SOLD TO Smith & Wesson
alsaqr
You are absolutely correct.... Companies will not even suggest that you adjust the the adjustable triggers on their guns - all them - "take it to a qualified gun smith" now where does the liability lie...
TC will not even sell you side lock breech plugs anymore they must install them for you....
Lawsuits - which really could lead to another big myth that I do not want to bring up...
You are absolutely correct.... Companies will not even suggest that you adjust the the adjustable triggers on their guns - all them - "take it to a qualified gun smith" now where does the liability lie...
TC will not even sell you side lock breech plugs anymore they must install them for you....
Lawsuits - which really could lead to another big myth that I do not want to bring up...
12-19-2006, 01:44 PM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: Going,Going,GONE! T/C SOLD TO Smith & Wesson
Mike,
I remember that and I very happy that T/C took care of you. I guess the thing that particularly bothered me about the promotion of a warranty which never existed in writing, is that T/C was willing to replaceone persons used up bore, oranother persons broken stock, but totally unwilling to correct a misaligned QLA, or a barrel whose bore was not of acceptable tolerance from the beggining, or a barrel incapable of tackdriving the conicals its very own custom shop claim it would in its advertising. Time after time, they would notbring the product to the standard expected of the forum member complaining or even the standard their own advertising represented.
I was going to mention triggers but it seems they will correct them at least for some folks. Even so, many people here have opted to use a gunsmith. I don't see a tough trigger to bethe problem anyway. It's the fact T/C knows they serve a discriminating buyer and advertise to that buyer that the pull of the trigger will be "3 to 3.5 lbs with zero creep". Again I am happy that they will fix it but should be installed in first place if doesn't first meet that criteria? I wonder how complicated and costly it would be to train their assembly techs to ensure it meets the minimum.
It just seemed to me that some folks weren't even getting the "limited warranty" against defects in materials but most importantly workmanship. T/C is a great company, and they make excellent products. I would never tell some one not to purchase a T/C, I actually own more T/C's thanany other brand (other than Ihave twoSavage Arms rifles). And of course any manufacturer is going to have some product slip through thecracks which is notpar with their marketing and withthe customer's expectation. It's what company does when they are called to task that matters.
I guess its the seeming conflict between unserved limited warranty needs ofcustomers that so make me doubt a consistent application of unconditional warranty. I would never buy a T/C expecting unconditional warranty,I only expectthe product to be what they advertise andto have a warranty against defects in materials and workmanship formy lifetime. In any event, I do hope everybody gets what they thought they were getting when they bit the bullet. If they happened to think the warranty is unconditional forever in spite of their written warranty, I hope they get that too.
I remember that and I very happy that T/C took care of you. I guess the thing that particularly bothered me about the promotion of a warranty which never existed in writing, is that T/C was willing to replaceone persons used up bore, oranother persons broken stock, but totally unwilling to correct a misaligned QLA, or a barrel whose bore was not of acceptable tolerance from the beggining, or a barrel incapable of tackdriving the conicals its very own custom shop claim it would in its advertising. Time after time, they would notbring the product to the standard expected of the forum member complaining or even the standard their own advertising represented.
I was going to mention triggers but it seems they will correct them at least for some folks. Even so, many people here have opted to use a gunsmith. I don't see a tough trigger to bethe problem anyway. It's the fact T/C knows they serve a discriminating buyer and advertise to that buyer that the pull of the trigger will be "3 to 3.5 lbs with zero creep". Again I am happy that they will fix it but should be installed in first place if doesn't first meet that criteria? I wonder how complicated and costly it would be to train their assembly techs to ensure it meets the minimum.
It just seemed to me that some folks weren't even getting the "limited warranty" against defects in materials but most importantly workmanship. T/C is a great company, and they make excellent products. I would never tell some one not to purchase a T/C, I actually own more T/C's thanany other brand (other than Ihave twoSavage Arms rifles). And of course any manufacturer is going to have some product slip through thecracks which is notpar with their marketing and withthe customer's expectation. It's what company does when they are called to task that matters.
I guess its the seeming conflict between unserved limited warranty needs ofcustomers that so make me doubt a consistent application of unconditional warranty. I would never buy a T/C expecting unconditional warranty,I only expectthe product to be what they advertise andto have a warranty against defects in materials and workmanship formy lifetime. In any event, I do hope everybody gets what they thought they were getting when they bit the bullet. If they happened to think the warranty is unconditional forever in spite of their written warranty, I hope they get that too.
12-19-2006, 01:58 PM
#25
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tri Cities, Washington
Posts: 1,616
RE: Going,Going,GONE! T/C SOLD TO Smith & Wesson
SL, the ONLY point I have tried to make in these threads regarding T/C is that all this could change in the future. Actually, I would bet that it WILL change in the future, it is just a matter of time.
I certainly hope the customer service that you and others I respect have received from T/C continues for a long, long time. I certainly don't mind paying for that kind of service. But everyone should realize, it might not continue.
I certainly hope the customer service that you and others I respect have received from T/C continues for a long, long time. I certainly don't mind paying for that kind of service. But everyone should realize, it might not continue.
12-19-2006, 03:13 PM
#26
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Going,Going,GONE! T/C SOLD TO Smith & Wesson
Pglasgow
Odd, anyway odd for me to understand some of the things you are describing.
This one especially - I have seen TC swap out barrels several times for not shooting correctly. In fact one guy ended getting 4 barrels from them before he got one that he wanted... Did this happen to you? Did they turn you down? or is this what you have heard?
The stock deal happened to me so I know what that is but I missed on the used up bore - they would not replace my used up 54 Renegade barrel nor would I expect them to. It was not a defect in their system.
I have never seen an add that says the Omega or Encore will shoot conicals with the accuracy they will shot sabots... Conicals are a dying breed - TC works on popularity - tack driving sabots is what the competition is offering and what the general public wants....
Before we complain about this one I think you should experiance it yourself first. We have no way of knowing all the circumstances in somebody elses complaint especially off a forum.
All these complaints really seem odd to me, because I have not heard these before from people that actually follow up correctly with TC. It is a pain to have to send the whole gun back sometimes - I know that for a fact, and often it is easier to go to your local gunsmith and solve the problem.
See in my limited first hand experiance I have never seen this...
Example - My hunting partners has a Hawken54 cal 1/48 twist that will not accept anybodies sabots - I encouraged him to contact TC - they had him send it in, which it took him 2 years to finally do- comes back with a new barrel - so I just do not know. The American Publiccan be awful weird at times. And a lot of the stuff we complain about a lot of it is on us.
Maybe all of this is the old day of the week thing - they use to say NEVER buy a car that was built on Monday - workers bring way to many pains from the weekend to work on Monday - never buy a car made on Friday - everybody is in a hrry to get out of there and finally the old saying was to buy a car that was built on Tuesday because itwould be built better.
Just haven't got a good explanation than i personally have never had a problem with TC - except they will not sale me a Hawkin breech plug that i can install myself!!!!
Odd, anyway odd for me to understand some of the things you are describing.
but totally unwilling to correct a misaligned QLA
replaceone persons used up bore, oranother persons broken stock.
I have never seen an add that says the Omega or Encore will shoot conicals with the accuracy they will shot sabots... Conicals are a dying breed - TC works on popularity - tack driving sabots is what the competition is offering and what the general public wants....
Time after time, they would notbring the product to the standard expected of the forum member complaining or even the standard their own advertising represented.
All these complaints really seem odd to me, because I have not heard these before from people that actually follow up correctly with TC. It is a pain to have to send the whole gun back sometimes - I know that for a fact, and often it is easier to go to your local gunsmith and solve the problem.
I guess its the seeming conflict between unserved limited warranty needs ofcustomers that so make me doubt a consistent application of unconditional warranty.
Example - My hunting partners has a Hawken54 cal 1/48 twist that will not accept anybodies sabots - I encouraged him to contact TC - they had him send it in, which it took him 2 years to finally do- comes back with a new barrel - so I just do not know. The American Publiccan be awful weird at times. And a lot of the stuff we complain about a lot of it is on us.
Maybe all of this is the old day of the week thing - they use to say NEVER buy a car that was built on Monday - workers bring way to many pains from the weekend to work on Monday - never buy a car made on Friday - everybody is in a hrry to get out of there and finally the old saying was to buy a car that was built on Tuesday because itwould be built better.
Just haven't got a good explanation than i personally have never had a problem with TC - except they will not sale me a Hawkin breech plug that i can install myself!!!!
12-19-2006, 03:32 PM
#28
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tri Cities, Washington
Posts: 1,616
RE: Going,Going,GONE! T/C SOLD TO Smith & Wesson
ORIGINAL: sabotloader
Conicals are a dying breed
Conicals are a dying breed
Hey Mike, I am just feeling really bad for you that you have those T/C's and now won't be able to get any customer support from them. So, out of the goodness of my heart, I will buy that Renegade from you that you recently put together. Again, it is just because we are good friends and of course, the price would be pretty low due to lack of customer service and all.
You get that new 17 yet? Prolly out freezin your rear off shooting it right now, huh?
12-19-2006, 03:37 PM
#29
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Going,Going,GONE! T/C SOLD TO Smith & Wesson
frontier gander
No not really this guy is/was just a picky SOB - the only reason he settled on the 4th was that it happend to shoot OK for him that day... barrel one shotOK but the stainless exterior was marred... other than that nothing wrong with the barrel.
And by the way THAT MAKES MY POINT from the original post ya-all made an assumption - because you really do not know the circumstances of the whole episode.
No not really this guy is/was just a picky SOB - the only reason he settled on the 4th was that it happend to shoot OK for him that day... barrel one shotOK but the stainless exterior was marred... other than that nothing wrong with the barrel.
And by the way THAT MAKES MY POINT from the original post ya-all made an assumption - because you really do not know the circumstances of the whole episode.
12-19-2006, 03:48 PM
#30
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Going,Going,GONE! T/C SOLD TO Smith & Wesson
cascadedad
Naw! Thank you for the offer but I think I will hold on to it - it is a pretty nice Renegade.... I did sale the two long range hunters that I built since I put togetherthat new fancy stainless steel one - I did not need them and most importantly it was a show of good faith to Terry.... She made inventory my guns the other when she saw the list - IT WAS NOT GOOD... she walked away yelling something about an Amory in this house bla to bla to bla - don't talk about it much anymore - better to be quiet.
Have not got the 17 yet - the pony express does not get to Moscow until after 3:00 pm - so I am sitting here killing time waiting for it...
Ya, I know UC ain't gonna be happy - but faxcs is faxcs
mike
Naw! Thank you for the offer but I think I will hold on to it - it is a pretty nice Renegade.... I did sale the two long range hunters that I built since I put togetherthat new fancy stainless steel one - I did not need them and most importantly it was a show of good faith to Terry.... She made inventory my guns the other when she saw the list - IT WAS NOT GOOD... she walked away yelling something about an Amory in this house bla to bla to bla - don't talk about it much anymore - better to be quiet.
Have not got the 17 yet - the pony express does not get to Moscow until after 3:00 pm - so I am sitting here killing time waiting for it...
Ya, I know UC ain't gonna be happy - but faxcs is faxcs
mike