frontier gander

well like i said, i picked up a TC encore and omega today! I went to the store and asked to see the omega first. The first thing i noticed was that it didnt balance out well and when holding it to my shoulder, the rear was very light in my shoulder and liked to tip toward. Could use some weight in the rear. When putting it into the shooting posistion, the stock didnt have enough drop to suit me and had a hard time getting the sights into my eye. Drop breech was great and slick with a reassuring click when i pushed it back into place. Hammer was smooth but i felt it would be better off with a larger hammer to insure a safe pull back with gloves or cold hands. Trigger guard was to small for any kind of gloves, needs bigger trigger guard for us who hunt in the cold.Never dry fired it due to me not wanting to upset the employee. But i did lower the hammer a few times and seemed like this one had a good trigger. The stock for this gun wasnt very appealing, hollow and loud when tapping on it. Had a cheapietexture to it, like holding a plastic cup. It would need more drop in the stock to shoulder up to me and the trigger guard would have to be over sized for me to consider buying it. It also needs a pound or 2 in the rear of the stock to eliminate the issue with the rifle wanting to fall forward when its shouldered.

Encore:Right away i noticed was that it had a very very well balanced feel,the stock had a new and fun look to it. Barrel/ sights were the ones i like, nice and bright. Right as i shouldered it i knew there was a big problem. The stock was to short for me and did not offer a comfortable hold and was unable to line up the sights. Needs more drop to the stock and maybe 2" added to fit me right. The balance and weight was just right. The palm grip also wasnt comfortable and liked to bend my wrist at an odd angle. Again, hollow stock and noisey with a cheapie plastic feel. Break open action was as smooth as a prom queens inner thigh "shivers"and snapped shut tightly. I could not test the hammer or trigger due to it having a lock on it " like anyone would be dumb enough to rob a store with a ML'er"
The rifle would just not fit me at all. Which is why everyone looking into buying a muzzleloader needs to see the rifle in person and make sure it fits properly before buying. The cva optima also did not fit me due to the stock design.
Just because these3 rifles did not fit me, doesnt mean they will not fit you, Its very important that your shoulderany rifle in person in all hunting/shooting posistions and make sure it will fit your body and needs. But most importantly, the 2 things they could improve on the Omega for it to be a solid shooter is to add some weight to the rear of the stock so it balances out better and to add some drop to the stock. The prohunter for me would need a new design in the composit stock for it to fit me. Keep this in mind before purchasing any muzzleloader. Its worth a couple hour drive to a store that does carry the rifle to make sure the rifle actually fits you and that you like the balance of the rifle.

Pglasgow

Dang F.G., I thought you ACTUALLY BOUGHT both from the title. Don't you think that assessment is a little harsh?

frontier gander

harsh? sometimes the truth is harsh! The guy trying to sell the gun said the same thing about the stocks! Im just complaining about the stock, the barrel/sights/drop breech were made nicely but the stock the the omega when shouldered, floated all over the place. the encore was horrible. Almost like trying to shoulder an SKS but with a shorter stock. I couldnt believe the stock on the encore though. Im not the first one to complain about it the guy says. He even had a hard time shouldering it.

sabotloader

Pglasgow

Naw, he is just trying to justify his purchase. I would probably do the same thing going the other way. FG probably likes Chevy's also and everone knows Ford's are better... Arctic Cats are better than Yamahaulers too... I ken think of few more but should not waste the space

And since I have one can really disagree with his assessment of the Omega - butI can not argue the Encore cause I really do not know. But it should be remembered he was handling the bottom line stock in each case. I think it goes back to what you said each person should handle and shoulder each gun themselves - what feels good to one may not feel good to another.

I think I read some where the number one single selling Ml is the Omega - so there are a lot of people that would disagree.

But even I am hanging up the Omega for awhile and going to the White UMag. I really want to find an Apex at a vendor around here and see what they feels like... We just do not see them up here because the Omega and Apex + a lot of other fine ML's will not meet Ml requirements in any of the states in the Pacific Northwest.

Pglasgow

I shouldered the Z5 at Walmart. I though it was fine. One thing about cheeking for open sights, it really depends on where the rear sight is set. If the sight was set real low on the ramp, that may have been why it was so uncomfortable for you. Were I selling one without a scope attached, I would be sure to put the rear sight in a position that felt comfortable for me. Chances are, most would find the fit somewhat comfortable.

A rifle which comb is perfect for open sighting, is to low for a scope. Most designs compromise between the two so that neither scope user or open sight user find the comb drop unworkable.

I have to admit. My impression of the composite stock of the Z5 Omega was just like my Sidekick, soft pliable plastic with seemingly little "composite material" in it, and too light in its weight (for me). But that is my impression, many others I'm sure will disagree with me on that and I think every single Omega and Encore owner will disagree with the "junk" assessment you made.

I happen to think its the level of satisfaction that matters most. A person doesn't have to have the greatest, most expensive rifle. He just needs to have a healthy admiration of his rifle and in his own mind think "its great". Everyone is entitled to that satisfaction and it should not be denied or compromised by another's own personal opinion. I know you would agree with that.

frontier gander

$711 is bottom line encore? wow i'd really hate to pay the higher end price for the "good" one and come up with the same problem. I like chevy trucks and the vette but other than that i like the 60s'-70 model buicks. Got bored with seeing every hotrod,streetrod with a common everyday Chevy. This is getting off the topic but i was at a car show and saw this beautiful 1929 buick 2 door sedan streetrod. Amazing paint and interior. look under the hood and what do we see? a $2000 chevy 454 crate motor. Im like why spend all that money and put a ****ty lookin motor. If it were me i'd have put a buick 425 bigblock with an original dual quad setup. Just amazes me at how people take shortcuts. If you never handled an Encore sabotloader, do so! You'll be agreeing with me that the stock is worthless. The omega is my hand didnt hold steady and plus the stock didnt have enough drop for me to see the sights comfortably. Both had SS barrels.

frontier gander

i didnt say the rifles were junk i said the stocks were. Mainly on the encore. And you are right, i thought those stocks were plastic, it felt like a plastic cup. My old cva staghorns stock was a lot more sturdy. But good lord! $711 for a stock that will only work on a really short person?! The guy was maybe 5'7 and didnt like the encore at all.

Pglasgow

I think if you handle one,you will get a feel of what I was talking about regarding "composite material" in it. I think the reason the winchesters come in "white fleck" is because they wouldn't look good otherwise. I mean there is alot reinforcement material in the plastic and the white fleck over power the visual impression of it. I "feel" like its a sturdy stock.

sabotloader

frontier gander

I thought i said the stock was the bottom line - the barreled action is standard - Was the Encore you handled a fluted barrel - or was was it even a ML. One of the Encores expense is that it doubles as a centerfire therefore has more standards applied to it's frame

Do not get me wrong cause I am not a TC freak - but they have to offer low line materials someplace to be able to compete with the imports, and there is nothing wrong with that either.

I guess one of the reason I have never been interested in the Encore - other than price is I hate the looks (shape) of the stock. It really looks awkward to me but a lot of people like it - to each their own...

frontier gander

the encore was ss barrel/black stock. It was the same material that the omega had. It felt alot like a plastic cup, soft and really smooth. Like u could take your fingernail and really make a good cut with your nail. Shoulder an encore and u will know exactly what im talking about. OR better yet, go to walmart and pick up a redrider BB gun for a child. thats pretty much how it felt when you put it to your shoulder. As for the apex black fleck stock, you should see the cva elkhorn pglasgow, its black but with a bluish green fleck. That looks better than the black/white fleck. Another thing on both rifles i shook my head about. The trigger guard. or lack of it i should say. When im hunting i have to wear gloves because of the cold. You better plan on leaving your shooting glove off because its not going to fit in the trigger guard.