wildchild04

I bought a CVA Kodiak .50 cal Nickel barrel.I will only be using it for deer. And I'll admit this is my first ML. I'll be using Open sights, since Nebraska only allows 1X scopes for ML season.

Are Pellets the way to go?

What Sabot and Bullet should I get? I'm not really looking for high end cost, mostly value/accuracy.

And judging by the forum, looks like I should invest in a brass ramrod??

cayugad

If cost is important, then shoot loose powder. Get some Triple Se7en, Black Mag3, or Pyrodex RS. Goex is also a good powder. For projectiles try some 240 grain XTP's in .452 diameter and .430 diameter. You might also want to try some 250 grain Shockwaves. Start the loads out at 85 grains of powder and work your way up from there. Triple Se7en seems to be an easy powder to find and work with for new shooters. Once you find the projectile it likes, the you can purchase in bulk (all but the shockwaves).

Handgunr

WC,
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[/align]I'm in the midst of building loads for my Omega .50 as well. Although I've hunted with BP guns for many moons, I only got the Omega last season, and with all the other rifle and handgun stuff I do, I haven't had a whole lot of time to play with it. Last year I nailed my deer early, so the chance at getting out during our late season was a pretty moot point. (Only take what I can use in a year)
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[/align]Anyway, flash forward to this year, about 2 weeks ago.
[/align]Grabbing the Omega and heading out to my range, I was using a cheap old Simmons because I had one, and it was the same camo pattern (yeah, stupid reason). Anyway after tossing a few cast bullets downrange, it was soon obvious that the scope's internals were turned to junk. A quick call to Simmon's and a proposed upgrade to one of their (Meade Optics) Weaver's was setup. I headed up to my local gunshop and picked up one of his Weaver's 3X9's to fix on top and I was back in business.
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[/align]After reading a lot about it, I bought a can of Amer. Pioneer FFG granular last year, and although I had a few sporadic nice groups using TC green sabots and some Keith style cast bullets, they didn't impress me much. I thought it might be the bullets, but after I had gotten my deer I shelved the whole thing until later.
[/align]When the ML season neared this year, I decided to pull it all out and start over. I had bought out a local gunshop of it's supplies, which included several hundred pounds of powder, and in that bunch there was a couple of cans of Pyrodex Select RS FFG.
[/align]I started out using the AP powder at 90grs., and some standard Winchester and Federal 209 primers I had on hand. Groups, at first, seemed good, then the scope problem. Once fixed, I went back at the bench, and I would get several decent shots, then crap. All over the place. Yep, I patched and/or cleaned between each shot, so it wasn't a fouled bore issue.
[/align]Part of my problem was the MTM Predator rest I had been using and with it's rubber cupped rest in the back, if you applied too much pressure, it'd bite into the stock and give you an unnatural recoil pattern sending certain shots low.
[/align]Assessing the issue, I changed back to my old sandbags. Well, although better, I realized that I needed to do some homework regarding loads. I found that many using the regular shotshell primers were having sporadic results and terrible groups at 3 & 4" at 100yds.
[/align]Another trip to the shop and I netted the reported Triple 7 Winchester primers. Another good choice was Remington's "Kleenbores".
[/align]I returned again to the bench and started shooting. Better, much better, but not what I thought the gun was capable of. I had been through several of my cast bullet styles, and although many have said "buy the factory bullets to shoot", and after many years casting & swaging my own, and knowing that I can make bullets that best many factory offerings, I kept at it.
[/align]I decided to grab that Pyrodex Select and give it a try, as American Pioneer wasn't impressing me very much.
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[/align]The night before last I hit paydirt......I used a Lyman Thompson style #429244 gaschecked semi-wadcutter hollowpoint cast from wheelweights at 9BHN, 100grs. of Pyrodex Select,a green TC sabot and one of those Triple Seven primers, and stitched 3 shots into one hole at 100yds.
[/align]Man...I about crapped my knickers.....bingo.
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[/align]I guess I should've listened to several of the guys on other forums who told me to use Pyrodex, or T7. I really think that a good portion of my problem was the powder, and for now, I'm using up the 2 pounds of Select I have. Next will be the T7 to try. A little hotter, but if the accuracy is as good, I'll be a happy camper.
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[/align]By the way, those cast bullets, they hit like a sledgehammer, literally. I tested them on my steel plates at 100yds, and they hit hard, very hard.
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[/align]Good luck & hope your results pan out.......
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[/align]Take care,
[/align]Bob
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outdoorslover

I like American Pioneer powder, and T/C XTP Mag sabots in 300 grains. It has awesome knockdown power on deer. I shoot 110-120 grains of powderon whitetails.

Triple Se7en

If wanting copper, I recommend a 300 gr. bullet like Shockwave, XTP, Scorpion, Gold Dot, TMZ, Expander, SSTwith 777 loose powder. If wanting lead, Cabelas Dead Centers 300 gr., Extended Ranges in 300 gr. and Buffalo SSB in 375 gr.

Real blackpowder FFF, Goex Pinnacle FFFand Pyrodex P (FFF) would be my next three choices of powders.

Handgunr

Tried to love American Pioneer too, outdoorslover......but it didn't want to love me back.....
[/align]I've used too many powders, for to many years in reloading to hammer on one for too long.......I know blackpowder, or the equivalents are a little different, but the pattern in building a load seems to run about the same. Not that I want to stay with Select forever.....but as soon as I used it on the 2nd and 3rd shot, I knew it was a keeper. A little tailoring is fine, but you can tell when you've got a winner. Maybe American's FFF might work. It's very clean stuff, but man don't inhale after you've squeezed off a shot if the wind is against you.......man, that stuff will gag ya.

Triple Seven........I know by your handle what you probably prefer......
......give me a tip or two on it, or Goex's/APP Pinnacle.
[/align]I haven't tried them yet. Years ago I use to use BP traditionally, then switched to Pyrodex when it first came out, and as I said, last year I switched to inlines (and APP at the same time), so I'm not so "up to speed" on some of the equivalents.

Regarding smokeless powders, Hodgon's a top powder line with me (I use a lot of it), and Pyrodex has always been good, but I've never tried T7. Only thing bad I've heard about it is the old voodoo story about the crud ring. And, the not so bad thing is that it produces faster velocities for a givenvolume of powder, comparatively.

If it's half as good as the primers that Winchester put out bearing its name, it's got to be a winner.

Take care,
Bob


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Wheatley

WildChild,

What part of Nebraska are you from? I am on the western end (Ogallala) and would be happy to help you out any way I can. I have a couple different powders you could try out if you wanted.

Triple Se7en

Since you found a reason to switch to Pyrodex, then it sounds like you weren't happy with blackpowder. Well aside from instant ignition with real black, Pyrodex performs similarly to blackpowder at the target spot& inside your bore.

Since you purchased APP, you may as-well use it up. Use around 15 grains more than you normally do with Pyrodex and black. Try to swab the bore only after a handful of shots -- then use liquid sparingly & dry the bore afterwards. Keep your bullet grain size at 300 or below for best success.

Good luck to you Bob. Hope it's the last powder brand you'll ever buy for your inlines. One caution thou: Don't use the APP FF in your sidelocks. Instantaneous ignition will be few & far between. APP sells their powder in different name brands like Shockey Gold &Goex Pinnacle. The GoexPinnacle ismore consistent than the others ... in my opinion. That's why I mentioned it.

Handgunr

Triple 7,



[/align]Appreciate the advice......
[/align]I was happy with BP, but the main problem I had was getting it. The local dealers were finding the demand to be very light in our area, and with the hassles in NY regarding storage and some other issues, most of them decided to stop carrying it.
[/align]At the time, Pyrodex was touted as the 8th wonder of the world, and many shooters were switching over to it. I decided to follow suit, and actually it seemed cleaner as far as repetitive shots and so on.
[/align]I also think I remember seeing something somewhere regarding it being somewhat less corrosive as well.

I've got about 2/3'ds of a pound left of the APP and we've only got until this Tues. for the end of the season in NY. I'm using one of those TC adjustable measures with the swing top for volume measures, but once I get a figured amount using that, and I chrono the load, I average out 10 loads, and then weigh my field charges. A matter of 5grs. difference regarding speed, changes the impact at 100yds about 1 inch. I tried it this afternoon using Pyrodex Select. At the measures 100gr. mark I was getting 1565fps., at 105grs. I was getting 1603fps., and at 110grs. I was getting 1652fps. The shots climbed proportionately from the fastest being the lowest impact, to the slowest being the highest, due to the speed of the round and the arch of recoil.

I know that the APP loads seemed hotter, even when I started with90grs. volume equivalent for both it, and the Pyrodex Select.APP had a bit more recoil. I had to jack the Select loads up to 100grs. to get the same recoil "feel".

I read where Goex and AP combined their efforts to create Pinnacle, I just wondered if it wasn't APP in another label.

I'll kick the load up another 15grs. like you mentioned and see what it does. Right now, the way I read the groupings, I'm getting inconsistent ignition issues at 90-100grs. One minute I'll get two or three together, and then a flier, then another in the group, then two more fliers, etc. Like I mentioned before, the rest was part of the problem because of the sticky rubber rest section for the buttstock. It would grab the rear of the gun, and cause it to recoil differently for every other shot. You had to be careful and pay particular attention to the way you were holding the gun, or you get a high or low hit. Left and right was fine, you'd just see the shots walk up and down if you changed your position in the rest, or tried to lock the rear down in the rabbit ears. I finally switched back to my sandbag setup I used when I was a shooter on our dept. ERT unit. It was always flawless and worked like a charm....and it still does. My shots went right back to center.

Like I said before, I initially started out using the shotgun 209's, and when I changed over to the Winch. Triple 7's, the groups tightened up considerably. I'll burn that APP up one time or another, but I gotta get a can of T7 and Pinnacle to give them a try.
T7 was something I knew of, but Pinnacle was new to me.

Thanks for your advice........
Bob


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Catus Magnus

Well... you've got lots of choices. And the thing to know is... most will work. If you're shooting deer at likely woods ranges - under 100 yards - doesn't make huge diff. You can spend as much or little as you want. On the high end... get 777 or Pyrodex pellets, and Powerbelt bullets. On the low end... get loose Pyrodex RS, and T/C 'Cheapshot' lead sabots (or 240gr XTP bullet/sabots). The latter combo will kill the deer just as dead, just as effectively, as the expensive combo. I'd vote for the latter. And don't get fancy; shoot the deer through the front half of the ribcage, and it'll die.

I personally don't have use for expensive pionted sabots & pellets - they don't add substantial value, except longest ranges. Don't buy the hype. My load is 90gr Pyrodex & Cheapshot sabot or 240gr XTP, depending on mood & inventory.

I've put up the muzzleloader for the year, and started dancing with Miss Marlin in 30-30. I like her.