uckayak2_mn

I have been trying to read up on past posts about actual black powder versus powder alternatives. This is a very confusing subject that I have been trying to muddle through. I will be shooting a Knight Disc Extreme in Spring.I have already decided that I will be only using powder. I will use the stock breech plug first, I can experiment with the Power Stem later on sometime. When I looked at the Knight website, it looks like they use the 777 powder quite often I mentioned this to my friend and he told me that I could have the few cans that he has. He told me that he really was not satisfied with it, he shoots a Encore first type. I have found quite a few posts on the crud ring and barrel fouling caused by the 777.
I have looked around town where I live and I can find the alternative powders at most sporting shops. I have found the 777 and Pyrodex powders. The black I would need to drive about 45 miles to Track of the Wolf, this would be no problem. If black is the preferred powder, which powder Swiss or Goex for best results. I just don't know which one will be best to start experimenting with. I have also read articles on the downsides of black powder. Help !

Thanks,
Mike

sabotloader

uckayak2_mn

I really wish I had the perfect answer for you, but I do not know if there is a perfect answer.

I would indicate to you the most commonly used powder in inlines is a substitute powder of some sort and I beleive Hodgdon says of their powders Triple 7 is the most used powder. It is tated in the area of 10 to 15% more powerful than the equivilent load of Black Powder by volume. The kicker there is Swiss Black Powder which is closer to Triple Seven or vice versa.... Pryodex of one sort or another is the next most popular powder and in there somewhere are all of the other subs - BM3. APP, and etc.

Real black powder is used by a lot of traditionalist shooting traditional type weapons. Real black powder has some draw backs in the amount of fowling and the corrosive nature of the salts in the powder. Still it is used by alot of people. From everything I have read the black powder we produce today, other than Swiss is nothing like the black powder of the past when it comes to power of the blast.

The biggist complaint about T7 is the "crud ring" a name Underclocked coined for a tough hard ring of debris that forms in the barrel near the powder charge. In most cases this "crud ring" can easily be dispensed with by a damp patch after shooting. The "crud ring" can and often does interfer with the proper seating of the next round down on the powder. People trying to avoid the crud ring aften move to one of the other subs that do not produce the crud ring.

The next curve not all guns are going to get the "crud ring." Hodgdon is aware of the problem but to my knowledge has not come up with a cure. Then on the other hand all of the different guns i shoot I really do not have a problem with the "crud ring." Sometimes I will get the beginning of the ring after the first couple of shots but by the 3-4th shot it seems to take care of itself and pretty much disappear.

Your freind may be offeringyou the T7 because his Encore does develope the crud ring and he has moved to a different powder.

Preferences.... I prefer T7 and will continue to use it, a lot of people are still using the Pyro powder of one type or another. The sugar powders like APP and BM3 have gained in popularity with a lot of other people.

You will end up having to make a decision based on works best inyour ML and we will not know what that is until you tell us.

Cayugad will pick upon this post also and his information will be really good as he experiments with them all and has results based on his personal experiances.

One of my problems with using different powders is availability - 'bout the only thing we see out here in the west is Hodgdon powders unless you want to pay the hazmat fees to have it shipped to you.

Good luck in your search....

cayugad

Your rifle will answer the powder question best. But since the power stem is made to ignite loose powder and not to be used with pellets, I would guess that you might have excellent results with Triple Se7en or Pyrodex RS. I've personally never used a power stem breech plug, so I have not idea how they work other then you're not supposed to shoot pellets with them.

Joe A

Get some 250 Gr.shock waves or ssts over 110 Grs 777 FFgand you will have great Accuracy and killing power.Crud ring is not an issue if you spit patch between shots. And Take it from me if your gun is a 50 cal. throw that power stem away and use the regular plug.Just got done testing with power stem and actually lost Accuracy. This load shoots very well in every knight I have shot And from what I have seen knight will out shoot T/C hands down and I own them both. Hope this helps.I don"t think you will be disappointedJoe

lemoyne

Different people with different guns have different experiances, I personally get crudring so bad that it takes a real cleaning to get it out so I can load a second shot then start scrubbing over again.
Pyrodex is a good reliable powder and shoots in almost all guns well you can normally get off 3 or 4 shots in a hunting situation without wiping most of us do a damp patch then a dry patch at the range between shots.
APP or Gold are made by the same co. but are different screenings and will shoot different but both shoot best with out cleaning and are more consistant for me if firmly seated. some people have good luck with Pinnacle I have not. Some have good luck with Black Mag which I have not been able to obtain.
Some of my group have had excellant results wit the Power stem breach plug but you have to use a powder it likes and a big enough load ,so far we have not had any luck with light loads.Lee

uckayak2_mn

Thanks Joe A,
That is very interesting about the .50 Power Stem, I talked with someone else on the P.S. and he said that he had heard they work really great in .52 but not .50. I think that I probably had better rephrase that question for just the stock breech plug. Have you had a chance to experiment with the Barnes/Knight SBT either .245 or .285 loads? That was the round that I was thinking of trying first.

Mike

uckayak2_mn

Thanks Lemoyne,
Those guys that have been trying out the Power Stem, what type of powder have they been using? What bullet and weight have been giving them the best results? My dealer has one of the Power Stems and I though that I would pick it up for experimenting with. Should be plenty of time before deer season next year

Thanks,
Mike

lemoyne

He is using 120gr of RS pyrodex a win 209 [standard] MMP HPH24 sabotwith a 250 gr XTP and he's getting 1.5 to 2inch groups with a 2 power scope. Its a new gun bought in late Oct. and so far he has taken one nice [8 pt ] buck with it but says hes going to try and switch to APP so as to eliminate the cleaning when its cold. Lee

uckayak2_mn

Thanks Lee,
That will give me a good starting point for the Power Stem. After he experiments with that other load. If you could drop me a line on his results would be greatly appeciated. I probably won't get a chance to get out until March, Weather permitting. Way too much time now for just dreaming. My Cabela's wish list is getting dangerously long already!

Thanks,
Mike
[email protected]

uckayak2_mn

Thanks guys for the inf.
Sounds like the 777 will work great with experimentation for the best load. I heard from a guy on another forum that is also having great luck with the Power Stem. He said that it really cleaned up the barrel also. I am definately going to pick the one up at my dealer.

Mike