barrel crown
07-29-2006, 05:15 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
RE: barrel crown
I wonder if poster Cataway told T/C that sabots shot fine but Powerbelts didn't??
Being Powerbelts is owned by bullet & ML rival BPI/CVA -- plus Powerbeltbeing it's the #1 selling ML bullet in the world, well I can understand T/Cs stance on this. They refuse to fix somethingover a single bullet-style complaint -- that being a rival bullet.
I would bet all of T/C's testings on Cataway's rifle were with T/C-packaged bullets. Had Cataway offered proof that T/C Bullets shoot poorly in his T/C inline, I think T/C Inc. would of repaired or replaced his barrel.
Just my opinion -- without knowing the facts.
Being Powerbelts is owned by bullet & ML rival BPI/CVA -- plus Powerbeltbeing it's the #1 selling ML bullet in the world, well I can understand T/Cs stance on this. They refuse to fix somethingover a single bullet-style complaint -- that being a rival bullet.
I would bet all of T/C's testings on Cataway's rifle were with T/C-packaged bullets. Had Cataway offered proof that T/C Bullets shoot poorly in his T/C inline, I think T/C Inc. would of repaired or replaced his barrel.
Just my opinion -- without knowing the facts.
07-29-2006, 09:05 PM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,618
RE: barrel crown
i have a history with TC.i have sent barrel and things back to TC in the
past.but if you expect TC to alter there product in some way that takes it out of spec they won't do it.as an example, i shoot a encore pistole an scooped 15inch 444 marlin, the recoil is severe i once broke the dove tail off a ring. one day i noticed the base was lose,what had happened was the screws had pulled the threads out.i sent it to TC asking if they would re tap for me, i got a call and they said that they could not replace the barrel because it was out of production. i said i dont want it replaced just please re tap the holes .they said that they could not do that ,as that would take it out of spec. so i had them return the barrel and i took
it to a gun smith and he fixed it . i suspect that its a lawyer thing with TC.
past.but if you expect TC to alter there product in some way that takes it out of spec they won't do it.as an example, i shoot a encore pistole an scooped 15inch 444 marlin, the recoil is severe i once broke the dove tail off a ring. one day i noticed the base was lose,what had happened was the screws had pulled the threads out.i sent it to TC asking if they would re tap for me, i got a call and they said that they could not replace the barrel because it was out of production. i said i dont want it replaced just please re tap the holes .they said that they could not do that ,as that would take it out of spec. so i had them return the barrel and i took
it to a gun smith and he fixed it . i suspect that its a lawyer thing with TC.
07-29-2006, 10:28 PM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: barrel crown
ORIGINAL: Triple Se7en
I wonder if poster Cataway told T/C that sabots shot fine but Powerbelts didn't??
Being Powerbelts is owned by bullet & ML rival BPI/CVA -- plus Powerbeltbeing it's the #1 selling ML bullet in the world, well I can understand T/Cs stance on this. They refuse to fix somethingover a single bullet-style complaint -- that being a rival bullet.
I would bet all of T/C's testings on Cataway's rifle were with T/C-packaged bullets. Had Cataway offered proof that T/C Bullets shoot poorly in his T/C inline, I think T/C Inc. would of repaired or replaced his barrel.
I wonder if poster Cataway told T/C that sabots shot fine but Powerbelts didn't??
Being Powerbelts is owned by bullet & ML rival BPI/CVA -- plus Powerbeltbeing it's the #1 selling ML bullet in the world, well I can understand T/Cs stance on this. They refuse to fix somethingover a single bullet-style complaint -- that being a rival bullet.
I would bet all of T/C's testings on Cataway's rifle were with T/C-packaged bullets. Had Cataway offered proof that T/C Bullets shoot poorly in his T/C inline, I think T/C Inc. would of repaired or replaced his barrel.
Fact is, you are not the first to complain about it. Txhunter58 is also having problems and needs his Omega back in time to tune it in for his elk hunt in Colorado. He won't be happy to hear that T/C thought his barrel shot good enough for shockwaves so nothing will be done unless hecan prove he can't shoot maxi-balls or maxi-hunters. He might just have to go out and buy a pathetic little Huntsman or Sidekick or worse yet a CVA rifle. He doesn't have much time to mess around, his hunt is coming in September.
I hope you don't stop trying. Keep us posted as to the outcome.
Happy Hunting, Phil
07-29-2006, 10:41 PM
#14
Spike
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 18
RE: barrel crown
I have had 2 different Black Diamonds and 1 Encore, all with QLA's bored off center from .009 to .015. The worst Black Diamond would not shoot any projectile accurately so it was returned to T/C for evaluation.
They replaced the barrel and receiver (one piece) and test fired it with 2 pyrodex pellets and 250 gr shockwaves and explained how they had only used their #13 bore cleaner in the barrel to clean it with. When I received the gun in the mail it was already rusting.
After a complete cleaning I tested the gun and it was indeed accurate with 250 shockwaves but not with powerbelts or bore size conicals. The QLA in this gun was off by .010 and I sold it to someone who only cared about shooting sabots.
My Encores QLA was off by .009 but would do a respectable job with sabots. With powerbelts and boresize conicals it was impossible to consistantly hit a washtub at 100 yds.
After having the Encore's QLA removed and the barrel recrowned it is accurate with any bullet I've tried including conicals and sabots.
I think T/C makes a good gunbut the QLA issue is real. Read this, http://www.prbullet.com/crown.htm
T/C's advertising is misleading and the DVD that came with the encore said you only need to remove the breechplug once a season to clean it. Also the barrel seasoning voodoo with borebutter isquestionable
They replaced the barrel and receiver (one piece) and test fired it with 2 pyrodex pellets and 250 gr shockwaves and explained how they had only used their #13 bore cleaner in the barrel to clean it with. When I received the gun in the mail it was already rusting.
After a complete cleaning I tested the gun and it was indeed accurate with 250 shockwaves but not with powerbelts or bore size conicals. The QLA in this gun was off by .010 and I sold it to someone who only cared about shooting sabots.
My Encores QLA was off by .009 but would do a respectable job with sabots. With powerbelts and boresize conicals it was impossible to consistantly hit a washtub at 100 yds.
After having the Encore's QLA removed and the barrel recrowned it is accurate with any bullet I've tried including conicals and sabots.
I think T/C makes a good gunbut the QLA issue is real. Read this, http://www.prbullet.com/crown.htm
T/C's advertising is misleading and the DVD that came with the encore said you only need to remove the breechplug once a season to clean it. Also the barrel seasoning voodoo with borebutter isquestionable
07-29-2006, 10:43 PM
#15
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 828
RE: barrel crown
Cataway: I can't help but to think that your gun just does not like powerbelts. I don't know if it is worth your time and the voided warranty to cut the QLA off so you can use Powerbelts. If cutting off the QLA does not solve the accuracy problem, then what are you going to do? I would seriously consider using saboted bullets instead. My humble 2cents.
07-29-2006, 10:50 PM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
RE: barrel crown
Phil
Do you really expect someone like Knight Inc to alter their bore so you can shoot Traditions package bullets in it?
How about CVA? Go tell BPI that you are having pizz-poor accuracy shooting Hornady XTPs out of your CVAOptima inline. See what they tell you.
It would not surprise me to have T/C Inc tell anyone with a 1-28" twist inline that Maxi-Ball or Maxihunterconicals are not made forbest accuracy in that Omega/Encore/Black Diamond twist either. They won't alter/service your bore for that conical bullet either. They will tell you that you bought a sabot/bullet gun & recommend what sabots shoots best in the gun. All of their recommendations will be T/C products.
Geez O'Pete Phil! There are 100 different sabot/bullets that will shoot well out of your typical T/C inline. Their warranty does not cover a rival bullet company's products. NOBODY'S DOES! Name me one manufacturer that will alter their products to suit a rival company's products?
Do you really expect someone like Knight Inc to alter their bore so you can shoot Traditions package bullets in it?
How about CVA? Go tell BPI that you are having pizz-poor accuracy shooting Hornady XTPs out of your CVAOptima inline. See what they tell you.
It would not surprise me to have T/C Inc tell anyone with a 1-28" twist inline that Maxi-Ball or Maxihunterconicals are not made forbest accuracy in that Omega/Encore/Black Diamond twist either. They won't alter/service your bore for that conical bullet either. They will tell you that you bought a sabot/bullet gun & recommend what sabots shoots best in the gun. All of their recommendations will be T/C products.
Geez O'Pete Phil! There are 100 different sabot/bullets that will shoot well out of your typical T/C inline. Their warranty does not cover a rival bullet company's products. NOBODY'S DOES! Name me one manufacturer that will alter their products to suit a rival company's products?
07-29-2006, 11:03 PM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: barrel crown
ORIGINAL: Doegirl75
Cataway: I can't help but to think that your gun just does not like powerbelts. I don't know if it is worth your time and the voided warranty to cut the QLA off so you can use Powerbelts. If cutting off the QLA does not solve the accuracy problem, then what are you going to do? I would seriously consider using saboted bullets instead. My humble 2cents.
Cataway: I can't help but to think that your gun just does not like powerbelts. I don't know if it is worth your time and the voided warranty to cut the QLA off so you can use Powerbelts. If cutting off the QLA does not solve the accuracy problem, then what are you going to do? I would seriously consider using saboted bullets instead. My humble 2cents.
The QLA is another matter, but it is such a simple matter. How can the production be so imprecise that a single person purchase 3 rifles with QLA's that far off?
The whole affair is sad. We can't use sabots here and Txhunter can't on his hunting trip. But what if he could but "didn't want to"? When a person forks out the money it takes to buy an encore or an omega, he shouldn't be told, and by the way, "it may suck at shooting conicals but that's perfectly OK with us, just use T/C brand sabots and everthing will be OK"
Happy Hunting, Phil
07-29-2006, 11:22 PM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: barrel crown
ORIGINAL: Triple Se7en
Phil
Do you really expect someone like Knight Inc to alter their bore so you can shoot Traditions package bullets in it?
Phil
Do you really expect someone like Knight Inc to alter their bore so you can shoot Traditions package bullets in it?
Thats it. Thats all I would expect if I owned one.
I can tell you, since I do shoot conicals. I won't ever own a T/C inline because I don't think they are of sufficient quality, ie built to the discriminating tolerances required, to be good conical shooters unless I were to get lucky.
Happy Hunting, Phil
07-30-2006, 07:05 AM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Moravia NY USA
Posts: 2,164
RE: barrel crown
While TC certainly pushes their SW, I don't believe it is made clear to potential buyers that SW may be the only projectile to work acceptably.
If this is indeed the case, it should be made perfectly and unquestionably clear so a potential buyer has all the info needed to decide to purchase.
They should not find this out after spending hundred's of dollars to obtain a gun with limited possibilities for loads.
And it is more than reasonable to expect manufacturing tolerances and quality control to be at a level that the QLA problems they are having should be a NON ISSUE to the customer receiving their new, expensive quality gun. The muchheralded (but not in my personal experience)TC customer service dept SHOULD be something that few ever need to experience IF manufacturing and QC do their jobs.
Working up a load is part of the fun. However, you should not need to be wondering if it is the load or the gun that is the problem. And TC should not expect the buyer to do their QC by spending the time and money for trial loads to determine a gun needs rework or just a limited selection of TC loads(NOT ADVERTISED) to achieve acceptable performance.
Steve
If this is indeed the case, it should be made perfectly and unquestionably clear so a potential buyer has all the info needed to decide to purchase.
They should not find this out after spending hundred's of dollars to obtain a gun with limited possibilities for loads.
And it is more than reasonable to expect manufacturing tolerances and quality control to be at a level that the QLA problems they are having should be a NON ISSUE to the customer receiving their new, expensive quality gun. The muchheralded (but not in my personal experience)TC customer service dept SHOULD be something that few ever need to experience IF manufacturing and QC do their jobs.
Working up a load is part of the fun. However, you should not need to be wondering if it is the load or the gun that is the problem. And TC should not expect the buyer to do their QC by spending the time and money for trial loads to determine a gun needs rework or just a limited selection of TC loads(NOT ADVERTISED) to achieve acceptable performance.
Steve
07-30-2006, 08:21 AM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: barrel crown
ORIGINAL: SteveBNy
While TC certainly pushes their SW, I don't believe it is made clear to potential buyers that SW may be the only projectile to work acceptably.
If this is indeed the case, it should be made perfectly and unquestionably clear so a potential buyer has all the info needed to decide to purchase.
They should not find this out after spending hundred's of dollars to obtain a gun with limited possibilities for loads.
And it is more than reasonable to expect manufacturing tolerances and quality control to be at a level that the QLA problems they are having should be a NON ISSUE to the customer receiving their new, expensive quality gun. The muchheralded (but not in my personal experience)TC customer service dept SHOULD be something that few ever need to experience IF manufacturing and QC do their jobs.
Working up a load is part of the fun. However, you should not need to be wondering if it is the load or the gun that is the problem. And TC should not expect the buyer to do their QC by spending the time and money for trial loads to determine a gun needs rework or just a limited selection of TC loads(NOT ADVERTISED) to achieve acceptable performance.
Steve
While TC certainly pushes their SW, I don't believe it is made clear to potential buyers that SW may be the only projectile to work acceptably.
If this is indeed the case, it should be made perfectly and unquestionably clear so a potential buyer has all the info needed to decide to purchase.
They should not find this out after spending hundred's of dollars to obtain a gun with limited possibilities for loads.
And it is more than reasonable to expect manufacturing tolerances and quality control to be at a level that the QLA problems they are having should be a NON ISSUE to the customer receiving their new, expensive quality gun. The muchheralded (but not in my personal experience)TC customer service dept SHOULD be something that few ever need to experience IF manufacturing and QC do their jobs.
Working up a load is part of the fun. However, you should not need to be wondering if it is the load or the gun that is the problem. And TC should not expect the buyer to do their QC by spending the time and money for trial loads to determine a gun needs rework or just a limited selection of TC loads(NOT ADVERTISED) to achieve acceptable performance.
Steve
These are my thoughts exactly, though you say it better. The real issueis "defects in workmanship". Things like tight and loose spots in barrels and misaligned QLA's. There is no excuse for such defects. Defending T/C because T/C branded sabots can forgive such defects or defendingpoor workmanship because it makes competing bullets unusable (something which would benefit T/C) doesn't help.
Again I encourage cataway to continue his quest to gain satifisfaction from his Omega. Good luck cataway.
Happy Hunting, Phil