Triple Se7en

Those wads put a big dent in blowby Phil. Some folks used a 2nd one too -- anoversized next caliber) wad in front of a loosely-fit bullet -- some others use an empty plastic sabot sitting in front of the bullet - when they transport the ML in & out of the woods. Keeps that bullet better seated.

Either oneshould not change POI - will not increase bore pressures.

cayugad

Phil -

When I was testing the different bullets, I tried shooting them without wads, with one wad, and with two wads, Then I tried loading the wads and bullets together, and tried loading the wads first and then the bullet. As strange as it sounds the accuracy is actually better when I seat the wad first followed with then the conical. Also it makes loading the conical that much easier.

Leadhead

Triple Se7en,,,,tell me you're kidding,,,,right?? That has to be the most irresponsible and potentially dangerous post I've ever read. You NEVER place ANYTHING in front of a bullet once it's seated.

Underclocked

"Some folks used a 2nd one too -- anoversized next caliber) wad in front of a loosely-fit bullet -- some others use an empty plastic sabot sitting in front of the bullet - when they transport the ML in & out of the woods. Keeps that bullet better seated.

Either oneshould not change POI - will not increase bore pressures."

T7, please reconsider those statements and the wisdom of posting such information. Have you yourself used either of those methods or verified any part of that last statement? IMHO, what you are suggesting could be VERY dangerous.

cayugad

Well actually when you load a smoothbore rifle, you put the powder down the barrel, then a over the shot card, then a fiber wad (cork looking) then the ball patched or unpatched, and if it is unpatched, then you put an over the shot card on all that to hold it all together. So in this case you are basically placing an "obstruction of sorts" over the ball and I've shot hundred of them that way.

I have often wondered the same thing Triple Se7en posted and if it would work. I do nto think I will try it mind you, but wondered what would happen.

Triple Se7en

You mean danger in a large diameter bore White Rifle????.... not in my buddy's White M-97 using No Excuses-- plus not showing any resistance/added recoil at all when I pre-foul my bores using 30 grains of powder with an empty sabot in my narrower bore T/Cs.

Ever hear of double-balling a roundball load? Alot of pressure there ... many times more than an empty sabotin front of a loose conical bullet -something many traditionalists folks don't consider dangerous. Plus... they do it in smaller/tighter 50-cal diameters than a White.

Really no sense in replying any further here. I've seen it done in a White with no ill effects using my 451 Harvesters.... have you??? This is not something I recommend in other MLs with smaller bores. The discussion here was about White Rifles & loose-fitting bullets.

I'm done here.

Leadhead

Let's hope so,,cos with advice like that, you're going to get alot of people hurt or killed.

cascadedad

I've only been doing the ML thing for a short period of time, but I don't think I would put anything in front of the bullet. I would assume if you put a sabot in front of a bullet, you would want to put the flat side facing the front of the bullet. If it were done the other way, I would think that would be very dangerous. It seems very possible that the "wings", "tabs" or whatever you call them that fit over the bullet normally, could get wedged inbeween the front of the bullet and the barrel. I don't know for sure, but it makes sense that that might very well cause major increased friction and would not be a good thing.

cascadedad

Hey how about a little Locktite???? Please notice the smiley, I am just kidding.

Underclocked

An overshot wad is a different matter. Obturation of a conicalto form a seal is desirable as long as that seal isn't TOO good. Placing something ahead of a large, bore-fittingconical in a muzzleloader is called a bore obstruction and, thankfully, no I haven't seen it. I would insist on NOT seeing it. Your buddy's White? How much hands-on experience do you have with a White? I've quite a lot and, yes they are very strong assemblies and yes, your "buddy" probably has gotten away with that nonsense in a White.

Such a piece of evidence in support of your advice such as - I've seen my buddy do it - is hardly what I would call convincing. Sure, hold my beer and watch this!! Not effect POI or pressure? Guess I also need to watch "your buddy" do it... from a distance.

Many, many years ago I double loaded a patched ball in a TC Hawken over 90 grains of Pyro P. When I touched that load off the rifle kicked like a mule from hell, fully recocked itself, left my nose and the right corner of my mouth bleeding, and actually put me a little out forjust a moment. Not a smart thing to doand certainlyan experiment I never care to repeat. That rifle, which had a Douglas barrel, did hold together which only attested to the fine quality TCbuilt intothe piece.

And I'veexperienced the effect of aslightly alloyed conical that was just a bit lopsided in a TC Encore. The load was normal in all other aspects. No blood that time, but anotherVERY convincing lesson. A picture of the scene afterwards would have resembled something from a cartoon.

So my conclusion is, based uponmy own "limited" experience,that suggesting ANYTHING be placed ahead of a projectile is very bad advice. (the only exception would be a piece of tape, finger cot,or similar over the end of the muzzle to prevent inleakage of moisture).

Instead, if one has any reason to doubt or just as a matter of good practice, check the seating of the conical periodically. I have yet to have one come off its seat and there have been times when I would have thought it would have done so. Correctly fitting conicals and checking the seating routinely seem totally appropriate in the use of my four Whites. But I'm no expert.