Ultra Mag in the Woods!
06-26-2006, 10:40 PM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cashmere, WA
Posts: 157
Ultra Mag in the Woods!
Hi Guys,
I finally took the Ultra Mag shooting this past weekend. One thing we noticed is the #11 breech plugs are different between the two Ultra Mags - one has a very thin wall when compared to the other one - of course there's a difference in the powder cavity - thick walled one has a smaller cavity, etc ... do you guys know why there's adifference?
I shot the Hornady 300gr XTP w/ Nosler 50/45 sabot over 75gr T7 3Fg while my buddy used Hornady 385gr HP conicals over 85gr T7 3Fg, he also used a TOTK 1/8" wad too. Shooting at 25yds or so - my buddy was having trouble with the fiber optic sights and performing consistent loading we think ... We both managed a dozen shots or so before the 88 degree heat drove us back to the truck cab AC!
Also interesting was despite knowing about the need to use the same ramrod pressure and such, we both had trouble with not pushing the projectiles all the way down the barrel!
Edited 7.5.06- adding a picture and some more details.My first ML target w/ the White Ultra Mag ... I believe this target has 12 shots w/ the same load, barrel swabbed after shot #2 and at approx. shot #8-9. Shot #13 was off the target at 7:30pm-ish,due to the rifle slipping to the side of the make shift rest out of the back of my truck just as the shot broke ...
Never touched the rear sight, just shot it as it came from the factory. I'm heading to a formal 50yd and 100yd range this weekend for more shooting ... I won't forget a rear sight adjustment screwdriver this time either!
The upper left group was the first set of shots made by covering the whole bullwith the front sight, the second group (centered more around the bull) was done using a slightly different sight picture - the front sight covered only the lower half of the bull. This is my first use of fiber optic hunting sights so the sight picture takes some getting used to for sure. I have night sights installed in my Glock 19, but at least you have the front blade outline for the finer aiming ... with the glowing front dot I couldn't say for certain I was seeing the same top edge every time. LOL
Thanks again to everyone here as I couldn't have made it thus far without each and every one of you guys helping me along the way!
cheers,
phil
I finally took the Ultra Mag shooting this past weekend. One thing we noticed is the #11 breech plugs are different between the two Ultra Mags - one has a very thin wall when compared to the other one - of course there's a difference in the powder cavity - thick walled one has a smaller cavity, etc ... do you guys know why there's adifference?
I shot the Hornady 300gr XTP w/ Nosler 50/45 sabot over 75gr T7 3Fg while my buddy used Hornady 385gr HP conicals over 85gr T7 3Fg, he also used a TOTK 1/8" wad too. Shooting at 25yds or so - my buddy was having trouble with the fiber optic sights and performing consistent loading we think ... We both managed a dozen shots or so before the 88 degree heat drove us back to the truck cab AC!
Also interesting was despite knowing about the need to use the same ramrod pressure and such, we both had trouble with not pushing the projectiles all the way down the barrel!Edited 7.5.06- adding a picture and some more details.My first ML target w/ the White Ultra Mag ... I believe this target has 12 shots w/ the same load, barrel swabbed after shot #2 and at approx. shot #8-9. Shot #13 was off the target at 7:30pm-ish,due to the rifle slipping to the side of the make shift rest out of the back of my truck just as the shot broke ...
Never touched the rear sight, just shot it as it came from the factory. I'm heading to a formal 50yd and 100yd range this weekend for more shooting ... I won't forget a rear sight adjustment screwdriver this time either!
The upper left group was the first set of shots made by covering the whole bullwith the front sight, the second group (centered more around the bull) was done using a slightly different sight picture - the front sight covered only the lower half of the bull. This is my first use of fiber optic hunting sights so the sight picture takes some getting used to for sure. I have night sights installed in my Glock 19, but at least you have the front blade outline for the finer aiming ... with the glowing front dot I couldn't say for certain I was seeing the same top edge every time. LOL
Thanks again to everyone here as I couldn't have made it thus far without each and every one of you guys helping me along the way!
cheers,
phil
06-26-2006, 11:01 PM
#2
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: Ultra Mag in the Woods!
I shot the Hornady Great Plains in 410 grain over 70 grains of Triple Se7en 3f. Since they have a hollow point I did not use a wad. I got real good results with them.
Actually the loading pressure thing comes with practice. I never push a projectile too hard down on Triple Se7en. I just press them down to where they rest. Goex on the other hand is different.I do press them into Goex.
I can't wait until my next shipment og Goex comes (tomorrow my case of powder arrives) and then I have another order of Black Mag3 & 3 pounds of Triple Se7en 3f coming up north with my brother. I ordered 500 of the bullshop bullets some now it is all a waiting games... then I will have lots to shoot again.
Actually the loading pressure thing comes with practice. I never push a projectile too hard down on Triple Se7en. I just press them down to where they rest. Goex on the other hand is different.I do press them into Goex.
I can't wait until my next shipment og Goex comes (tomorrow my case of powder arrives) and then I have another order of Black Mag3 & 3 pounds of Triple Se7en 3f coming up north with my brother. I ordered 500 of the bullshop bullets some now it is all a waiting games... then I will have lots to shoot again.
06-27-2006, 08:00 AM
#4
Fork Horn
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 492
RE: Ultra Mag in the Woods!
PHILNE wrote:
Did I miss something, or am I reading this wrong?
I understand this to mean, "we were trying toNOT push the projectile ALL THE WAY down the barrel".
Please excuse me if I'm stating the obvious, but you MUST push the projectile all the way down the barrel - with NO SPACE between the bullet and powder. To leave a space is to risk dangerous pressures and possible damage to the gun or your body.
If you're talking about how hard the bullet is pressed against the powder, that's another issue. Some have better results with just lightly seating the bullet on the powder; others have different results (as CAYUGAD mentioned).
Sorry if I'm over-reacting here, but I thought I detected a possible safety issue in your statement.
despite knowing about the need to use the same ramrod pressure and such, we both had trouble with not pushing the projectiles all the way down the barrel!
I understand this to mean, "we were trying toNOT push the projectile ALL THE WAY down the barrel".
Please excuse me if I'm stating the obvious, but you MUST push the projectile all the way down the barrel - with NO SPACE between the bullet and powder. To leave a space is to risk dangerous pressures and possible damage to the gun or your body.
If you're talking about how hard the bullet is pressed against the powder, that's another issue. Some have better results with just lightly seating the bullet on the powder; others have different results (as CAYUGAD mentioned).
Sorry if I'm over-reacting here, but I thought I detected a possible safety issue in your statement.
06-27-2006, 08:33 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: Ultra Mag in the Woods!
ORIGINAL: jaybe
PHILNE wrote:
Did I miss something, or am I reading this wrong?
I understand this to mean, "we were trying toNOT push the projectile ALL THE WAY down the barrel".
PHILNE wrote:
despite knowing about the need to use the same ramrod pressure and such, we both had trouble with not pushing the projectiles all the way down the barrel!
I understand this to mean, "we were trying toNOT push the projectile ALL THE WAY down the barrel".
I'm thinking you read it wrong. I understood them to say that they had trouble consistently compressing the powder charge (paraphrased). I am wondering whether they were having crud ring problems. The way Philnie wrote it was kind confusing, but I really don't think he meant he was trying "not to seat" the bullet on the charge.
Happy Hunting, Phil
06-27-2006, 09:18 AM
#6
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cashmere, WA
Posts: 157
RE: Ultra Mag in the Woods!
jaybe
Yes, that's the implication here!
After my buddy and I shot perhaps a half-dozen rounds we noticed the loading ramrods seemed to be a bit farther down the barrel than before ... then again we're both very new to ML shooting and maybe we didn't actuallypay attentionuntil then? Not sure, but once we calculated how much it should go down and I remembered loading pressure makes a difference, I started to lay those Hornady's into a more consistent pattern at short distance. I also played around w/ the sight picture a bit - when the front bead covered the bull I was shooting approx 1-1.5" high and approx 1" left. Then I started to place the front bead on the lower half of the bull and the second round of shots were much better ...
Underclocked
Great information, thanks! I forgot about placing the Doc White spare parts order so will get that done this week. Will have to see what version breech plug he sends me as new ...
cayugad
Ok, I'll tell my buddy to try shooting them w/o wads next time. Perhaps that was contributing to his grouping problem as well, I don't really know. Everyone has a buddy like this guy - he want's to do things on his own and won't take the time to learn/research much. He actually started shooting at beer bottles at 50yds while we were there and was fairly discouraged when he couldn't hit them after 5-6 tries ... then again, it was hot and gusting winds hard enough at times to knock a baseball cap off if it wasn't on tight.
Also, I got a bunch of black 'stuff' out of the barrel when I cleaned it. I followed the cleaning regime you outlined in another post - no real black stuff coming out with a bore brush or a patch/jag combination, first with a 50% mix of windex and isopropyl alcohol and then Birchwood Casey #77. But when I switched over to T/C #13 and 6-8 full length strokes using a patch over the bore brush, I got a ton of black stuff out - nothing crunchy or flaky though. Just 6-8 patches were covered with it... after thatit was clean as a whistle and dry patchescame outall white. Was this black stuff perhaps the black sabot residue?
It sure was fun to shoot, let me tell you.I definitely need to get better organized - a range box is #1 on the list.
cheers,
phil
Yes, that's the implication here!
After my buddy and I shot perhaps a half-dozen rounds we noticed the loading ramrods seemed to be a bit farther down the barrel than before ... then again we're both very new to ML shooting and maybe we didn't actuallypay attentionuntil then? Not sure, but once we calculated how much it should go down and I remembered loading pressure makes a difference, I started to lay those Hornady's into a more consistent pattern at short distance. I also played around w/ the sight picture a bit - when the front bead covered the bull I was shooting approx 1-1.5" high and approx 1" left. Then I started to place the front bead on the lower half of the bull and the second round of shots were much better ... Underclocked
Great information, thanks! I forgot about placing the Doc White spare parts order so will get that done this week. Will have to see what version breech plug he sends me as new ...
cayugad
Ok, I'll tell my buddy to try shooting them w/o wads next time. Perhaps that was contributing to his grouping problem as well, I don't really know. Everyone has a buddy like this guy - he want's to do things on his own and won't take the time to learn/research much. He actually started shooting at beer bottles at 50yds while we were there and was fairly discouraged when he couldn't hit them after 5-6 tries ... then again, it was hot and gusting winds hard enough at times to knock a baseball cap off if it wasn't on tight.
Also, I got a bunch of black 'stuff' out of the barrel when I cleaned it. I followed the cleaning regime you outlined in another post - no real black stuff coming out with a bore brush or a patch/jag combination, first with a 50% mix of windex and isopropyl alcohol and then Birchwood Casey #77. But when I switched over to T/C #13 and 6-8 full length strokes using a patch over the bore brush, I got a ton of black stuff out - nothing crunchy or flaky though. Just 6-8 patches were covered with it... after thatit was clean as a whistle and dry patchescame outall white. Was this black stuff perhaps the black sabot residue?
It sure was fun to shoot, let me tell you.I definitely need to get better organized - a range box is #1 on the list.
cheers,
phil
06-27-2006, 09:30 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: Ultra Mag in the Woods!
Did you mean to say that you were "trying not to push the bullet all the way down the barrel" or that you had trouble because you unintentionally had not pushed the bullet all the way down barrel. I'm confused.
Happy Hunting, Phil
06-27-2006, 10:18 AM
#8
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cashmere, WA
Posts: 157
RE: Ultra Mag in the Woods!
Pglasgow
Short answer is the latter - I suspect I may have unintentionally left the bulletslightly above the powder column during initial shots. I've got is solved now though - more shooting this weekend is planned - and I'd like to try the NE conicals and the White PowerPunch ones for comparison too ...
cheers,
phil
Short answer is the latter - I suspect I may have unintentionally left the bulletslightly above the powder column during initial shots. I've got is solved now though - more shooting this weekend is planned - and I'd like to try the NE conicals and the White PowerPunch ones for comparison too ...
cheers,
phil
06-27-2006, 11:00 AM
#9
Fork Horn
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 473
RE: Ultra Mag in the Woods!
Hi Phil
Once you shoot conicals out of that Ultra-mag (pimp rifle) you might not go back to sabots. One problem I had with the 460 NE is that they would fall out of the barrel,really they would. I have some bullshop NE copies and they work great they are sized to.504 while the NE are .503 I know ,not much difference but when you seat them the ramrod does turn so they are engaging the rifling. Just putting the ramrod weight is enough to move the
bullet to the powder. The wad is harder to seat than the bullet.
Redclub
Once you shoot conicals out of that Ultra-mag (pimp rifle) you might not go back to sabots. One problem I had with the 460 NE is that they would fall out of the barrel,really they would. I have some bullshop NE copies and they work great they are sized to.504 while the NE are .503 I know ,not much difference but when you seat them the ramrod does turn so they are engaging the rifling. Just putting the ramrod weight is enough to move the
bullet to the powder. The wad is harder to seat than the bullet.
Redclub
06-27-2006, 11:24 AM
#10
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: Ultra Mag in the Woods!
Also, I got a bunch of black 'stuff' out of the barrel when I cleaned it. I followed the cleaning regime you outlined in another post - no real black stuff coming out with a bore brush or a patch/jag combination, first with a 50% mix of windex and isopropyl alcohol and then Birchwood Casey #77. But when I switched over to T/C #13 and 6-8 full length strokes using a patch over the bore brush, I got a ton of black stuff out - nothing crunchy or flaky though. Just 6-8 patches were covered with it... after thatit was clean as a whistle and dry patchescame outall white. Was this black stuff perhaps the black sabot residue?
Also to combat the chance of not seating the projectile properly, make a witness mark. I can not stress the importance of a witness mark. Especially to new shooters, but even us old guys have saved our you know whats because of a witness mark. Dump your powder, then push a projecitle down the barrel, firmly onto the powder. Leave the ramrod in the barrel and take some masking tape and wrap that around the ramrod, level to the muzzle. All the following shots should have that tape level to the muzzle. If it is not, then something is wrong and needs to be examined closer. That means you might have changed powder charges, or projectiles, or you need to swab the fowling out of the barrel.