philnie

cayugad
Ok thanks. I forgot to ask you about the reason why you felt a GP HP projectile didn't needa wad? I told my buddy to use one as I had it in my head all non-saboted projectiles needed one ...

Redclub
Yes, we'll see about those conicals and my Ultra Mag. I'd sure like to have easier loading than those Hornadys I tried last weekend. Once the Nosler sabot was compressed the whole thing slid down the barrel pretty easy, but the amount of pressure I had to use w/ a short starter will most surely deform an all lead projectile and come to think of it, my buddy had a hard time loading the GP HPs too ... I definitely saw more than one mangled nose going down his Ultra Mag ...

cheers,
phil

cayugad

On a hollow bottom projectile if you really feel the need to put something under it, I would go with a sub base made by MMP although people will tell you that the sub base is only necessary when shooting large charges under a sabot. I've tried sub bases under some conicals and the difference in accuracy was not all the pronounced, so I stopped using them there.

In a hollow bottom, you want that base to expand as even as possible. If you had a wad of some sorts, the ignition of the powder might drive the wad up into the base of the projectile making it expand into the rifling in strange ways. I simply put a dab of lube in them. That lube will protect the bottom of the conical from the heat of the igniton.

On a flat based conical like the BullShop or the No Excuse, then the wad will help stabalize the pressure under the conical from the igniton and protect the bottom of the projectile from the ignition blast. Although do not be scared to try conicals without wads at all. In some cases you get excellent accuracy that way, as well.

philnie

cayugad
Grreat info, thanks so much.Have you considered writing an ML book in your spare (shooting) time?

thanks again,
phil

sabotloader

philnie

I am jumping in here way late so if I cross any lines I am sorry....

And I am probably going to ask some dumb questions....

Are you using a range rod to load with or are you using the ram rod that came with the gun? Which type of loading jag are you using?

I remember there was a discussion about whether you were seating the bullet on the powder... might I suggest the next time you are loading push the bullet/sabot down and listen - to your range rod/ram rod you will hear the powder begin to compress as the bullet seats. Now mark the rod... I seat with a smal amount of pressure each time on the powder...

I would suggest you get a TC Super jag to load with - you can load about any projectile without marring it...


(double clicking on thepicture should enlarge it) or

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/sabotloader/Jag.gif


Which lead bullet were you trying to load into the Ultra Mag? Have you settles on a projectile yet? Nothing you load in 45 cal in a sabot should require a lot of pressure to get down a White or any other 50 cal as far as that goes.... I push mine down with my thumb.

Check you Nosler sabot for me... Does it a "stair step" in the base? If it does it is a MMP and probably a HPH-12 (The thicker MMP 45-50 sabot) - if it has a smooth cup it probably is a Harvester sabot. If the bullet/sabot combination is to tight you may need to go to a HPH-24 (thinner than a 12) and/or a 3P e-z the thinnest of the MMP sabots....

I will be in Kenewick this weekend - cascadedad is gone on a vacation but I am hoping to get some shooting in on Saturday... I know it is a long drive for you but if'n you want to come down and shoot late in theafternoon after the temp cools down?????

I am sending you a PM also...

philnie

sabotloader
Hello sabotloader! As always, your input is most welcome. Let me answer all of your questions and provide current understanding/reasoning here:

- I have a couple 'extra' rods: the one that came with the Ultra Mag stayed in the rifle. I bought one of the 36" flexible range rods from Cain Outdoors and left the stock jag on it as I don't have a suitable adapter. This was my range cleaning rod used to swab the barrel w/ 50% each of windex and isopropyl alcohol.

- I also bought one of the xssights rods from Sportsmans Warehouse and installed the exact same jag you show in your picture. I liked the fact that it swiveled too - I don't want any "hash" marks on the projectile/sabot while loading. The xssights rod also has pre-etched marks so I've got the right level memorized now.

- Last rod I promise! Ipicked up a Tetra cleaning rod that has the ball bearing handle (was looking for a Dewey but came up blank) - so the spin action is built it. It's a 32" rod and if I hadn't forgot it at home the day I went shooting I would have used itrather than the xssights rod.

- I believe I've worked out the "how far down the barrel is the bullet / is it sitting directly on the powder" question, but never considered the fact I could hear the powder start to compress and/or the trapped air escaping. I will give this a try for sure.

- I was using the Hornady 300gr XTP (copper jacket) while my buddy was using the Hornady 385gr GP HP all lead. I believe the 300gr XTP is .451 dia or .452 - I don't have a caliper so couldn't measure the 385gr GP HP my buddy used. I watched my buddy load a couple ofhis projectiles to understand how much pressure he was using to load. Good thing I purchased a short starter otherwise we both would have had trouble.

- No, I haven't selected my hunting projectiles yet - just shooting to learn and get the feel/ process of working with MLs. I will say I'm intrigued by the reported ballistics of the Buffalo 375gr SSB sabot as it's calculated drop from muzzle to 150yds (my typical hunting distances and comfort zone using iron sights) are more than acceptable to my style of aiming, etc ...

- The Nosler 50/45 sabots I have are the stair stepped flavor you describe.

I have scheduled a long July 4th weekend - 4 days off. Much more ML shooting is on the agenda for sure. So yes I'd love to drive down Saturday and meet up to shoot a bit and pick your brain a bunch! I'll respond to your PM to verify times/places/contact info. It's a 4hr plus drive I recall so will have to plan out the day a bit.

thanks again!
phil

sabotloader

philnie

The Tetra rod is the one I use at the house for cleaning and on occasion as a range rod - it is a very good rod. But I find the 32" a bit long at the range. I use another rod shooting just as long but ithas a spin jag attached to it - that jag is great no marring the bullet and it even makes loading somewhat easier..

If your 300 grain XTP is a 45 cal it is a .452 - it really should load very easy... with a Nosler sabot - if the Nosler is made by MMP...

I have heard alot of good things about that SSB also should work just fine. Even the Knight all lead bullet should work well.

I responded to your PM - give me a call this evening if your free - Terry and her sister are at a play at the University of Idaho - so I am here baby sitting the cat.

mike

cayugad

The Buffalo Bullet 375 grain SSB is one of my favorite bullets. They are a spitzer point pure lead projectile. They load easy and shoot great. These groups were shot out of my Black Diamond XR at 100 yards. I was shooting 100 grains of Goex 2f for a charge. I had been shooting all afternoon on the range when the UPS man showed up with my supply of SSB's. I had found a deal on them and purchased 15 boxes of them. Why they first shot to the right I have no idea, but I sure could not complain about the size of the groups.

I have shot them in the Ultra Mag and they do real well and load like a dream. My understanding is they have changed the sabots since I purchased my stock pile, so I do not know how the new SSB's would shoot. These are my hunting load in my Black Diamond XR.

Another Black Diamond user asked about these and I suggested they might make a good elk load. So he was shooting them with 115 grains of Triple Se7en 2f. He took an elk at 80 yards (as I remember) and it managed to make about 20 yards before dropping. He said he got excellent penetration and expansion using the projectile...

philnie

cayugad
Wow, you seem to provide just great information here! What's always great too is you have such detailed notes and photos to accompany the information. Your style of record keeping is something I need to better understand and use - I'm sure I'll forget such detials over time ...

You've convinced me on the Buffalo 375gr SSBs - if I can get them to shoot well in my Ultra Mag I'll use them for this hunting season. While a bit of over kill on deer, it'll surely get the job done on them and elk. I've lucked out and will be shooting a bit with sabotloader tomorrow! Learning from a pro is always a good thing I say.

thanks again!
phil

cayugad

I was shooting the Ultra Mag today at the 60 yard station (since that's where I sight in at) and was shooting some 495 grain .503 No Excuse Conicals with 70 grains of Triple Se7en 3f and two 1/16th fiber wads. If your hunting situation is not extreme, such as 100 yards and under, I think this load would plant any deer where it stands. I recovered one of the conicals out of the bullet trap. While it expanded to over an inch in width, it still weighed 494.8 grains.

As for my record keeping, I keep files for each rifle in the computer and in a separate notebook. After each shooting, I take pictures of the targets and things that I find interesting or unusual. I then put those pictures into the files and explain what I was looking at. This way I can go to any of my rifles, and search out loads, and projectiles and have a good idea what to expect out of the rifle.

philnie

cayugad
Ok, thanks cayugad. I'm getting the photo storage thing sorted out now, but don't have a record keeping system setup per se. I'm working up an MS one note file and if that doesn't work will switch over to a mini access database.

sabotloader
Thanks so much for offering to meet with me this past weekend. I'm sorry I couldn't make it at the last minute due to work issues cropping up. I've ordered the MMP HPH24 and the 3-petal EZ load sabots to see if using them makes loading the Hornady 300gr XTPs easier ... I haven't tried loading the SSBs yet, so thanks for the heads up on a potential sabot change on their part - seems to me I recall reading changing sabots may be indicated if they load hard.

I've also edited my original post on the thread adding a picof the targetI shot - now you guys can see the fruit of your painstaking labors on this ML newbie.

thanks again,
phil