txhunter58

I should have given more explanation inwhat I have tried. First, sabotsare not an optionsince I hunt elkin Colorado. Second,my brother and friend are both using 348 grain powerbelts, what we consider tobe the smallest powerbelt to use onelk. They are shooing 3-4 inch groups at 100 yards with 110 grains 777 and a 348 powerbelt. With that same load, I shoot 5 inch groups at 25 yards! I have tried 348, 405, and 444 grain powerbelts with 777, BM3 andAPP. I have tried from 80 grains to 120 grains of each powder in 5 grain increments. My best loadis with 90 grains of 777 and a 348 powerbelt and 95 grains of 777 and a 405powerbelt. Both give me adequate accuracy outto 80-100 yards (5 inch groups from a sandbaged bench rest), my max range anyway, but I was hoping for something better. The change in pressure to load 2/3 down just got me wondering if something might be wrong with the barrel.

Pglasgow

It is clear to me that something is different about your rifle as compared to your friend and brothers. Probably is the barrel. Sounds like its just not able to handle the hotter loads. Did you say in earlier posts you tried even smaller charges, say 70-85 grains of 777?

It may shoottigher groupsdown there and is more than capable of taking elk with a 405 PB, even with that charge. Although, it occurs to me, thatit maybe the source of some ribbing from your brother and friend . I bet if you call T/C, they'll help you. Good Luck.

Happy Hunting, Phil

elk_chaser1

Are you saying that twist rate determines felt recoil? I'm one of those "folks in Colorado" that refuses to shoot Powerbelts. I have had - and seen - too many instances where these bullets simply blew up on elk AND deer. They went in, but they didn't come out. Simply disintegrated inside the animal without suitable penetration. Lost at least one cow elk due to powerbelts. In my Omega, I shoot the 460gr No Excuses...shoot real BP, too! Great accuracy, plenty of killing power. Sure, it kicks a little, but no more than other high power rifles that I've hunted elk with. Besides, I'm not shooting my hunting load on the bench all day.

Pglasgow

elk_chaser1,

What charge do you use with this load? Before I hunt this year, I'm gonna try some BP in my inline to see if I can get more consistent MV's. With Pyro RS, the velocities can span over 120 fps. Its limiting my range.

I am reminded of this article http://www.researchpress.co.uk/targets/sandyhook.htm.

This they mention of the bench rested 45-70:

"Ordnance records show that when fired from a machine rest the .45 Springfield was expected to group all of its bullets inside a 4-inch circle at 100 yards, in a 11-inch bull's-eye at 300 yards, and inside a 27-inch circle at 500 yards."

I'm quite amazed at the 300 yardgrouping. It requires fairly consistent Muzzle velocity to achieve this.

Happy Hunting, Phil

elk_chaser1

I currently shoot 90gr of Goex 3F, followed by a wonderwad and then the 460gr No Excuses. I can get 2-3 inch groups at 100 yards...if I do my part. Took a big mule deer doe last year at about 45 yds. Bullet passed through, took out both lungs and the off hand shoulder. Deer went about 10 yds. and piled up. I am looking at working up a load with 2F so I can buy 1 granulaiton - the GPR shoots nice tight groups with 2F!

Triple Se7en

No

I'm just saying with normal factory Omegas & numerous visits to the range due to the love of this sport, 777 & monster No Excuse bullets are not pleasant to use.

If you are a very limited shooter, then I find it tolerable. But not multiple jugs of powder per year. That's unjust & cruel punnishment....

The most fitting enjoyment-pursuement of this sport starts with proper purchase of the rifle that fits your state requirements. Don't buy a 4X4 if your state requires front-wheel drive. Same goes with inlines versus sidelocks -- fast twist versus slow twist -- conicals versus sabots.... in your state.

Paying good money for your gun & only being able to find 1-3 bullets for it to shoot is not smart-shopping.

I'm done here! Much like bore butter users, the sabot/bullet gunpurchasers of Colorado just keep coming & coming & coming.

Pglasgow

So far I am pleased with the performance of the Sidekick's 1:28 twist barrel grouping offull bore all lead bullets. Within2.25 MOA at 50 yards with the wind screaming and open sights. I don't think twist rate is the primary concern for whether the rifle willprecisely shootconicals suited for that twist-rate. We in colorado do shoot conicals suited for 1:28 twist rate. Whether the rifling itself is suited for plastic or lead is a whole nuther matter and THIS ISAMATTERI WOULD LIKE TO KNOW A LOT MORE ABOUT.

Happy Hunting, Phil

nchawkeye

I would do a couple of things...1) Lap the barrel with JB bore paste 2) Get rid of the 777....

I have shot a Knight Disc for years....a couple years back I tried 777...had the same situation you are discribing...After I had cleaned the barrel....Now I was using sabots...but I could feel the barrel tighten and then loosen up about 2/3 of the way down....I bought some bore paste (come to think of it I believe it was Montana's) at a gun show....went home and put this paste in a cleaning patch and my cleanig jag...gave it 100 strokes...and changed patches and paste 3 times....She loads nice and smooth now....I will never use 777 in it again...I can't swear thats what did it...Funny that I tried it at all, because I have been a flintlock shooter/hunter since 1975....Anyway, its GOEX for me from now on.....

Just a thought...Good Luck....

Guns...like women can drive a man crazy sometimes....

lemoyne

I am glad I am not the only one that has had that kind of experance with 777, I was begining to feel all alone. Thats the only powder in the black powder and black powder substitute group that I really don't like. Lee

dmurphy317

As mentioned earlier, I would try some JB's bore pasteto clean the barrel real well. If that doesn't give you a smooth evenresistance for the length of the barrel, I would see if TC would "make it right". I would avoid doing a full fledged lapping for now due to any warranty issues it may create.

If the 777 is giving you crud ring headaches, you may want to try Pyodex P. It should come close to the same, volume to volume, performance without the crud ring. If your shooting heavy conicals, I would stay away from BM3, it seems to work better with lighter bullets than heavier ones, at least in my guns.

After 3 years of working with it, I would guess you've checked all the other accuracy robbers, like loose fit in the stock, loose screws, scope mounts (if used), shooters ability, etc. If so, it sure sounds like a barrel problem to me.

Good luck and remember, it's only a few months till hunting season, better get on it now.